Return-Path: Received: from imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.72] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 744317 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:45:46 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.72; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from [209.214.44.51] by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050218154457.ZZKO2021.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[209.214.44.51]> for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:44:57 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.8.8]); Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:44:48 -0600 Message-ID: <01e001c515d0$c679d060$332cd6d1@paul52u7f5qyav> From: "Paul" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: I found the power Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:29:26 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-42160D7049E0=======" --=======AVGMAIL-42160D7049E0======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01CE_01C5159C.5708E790" ------=_NextPart_000_01CE_01C5159C.5708E790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Wendell....I still have some testing to do, and if and when I = install my street ported 4-port with high compression rotors, I may need = to go back to the larger prop. If successful, then I would not need the = prop I got from Ron Gowan. Will keep you informed. Paul Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wendell Voto=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: I found the power I almost bought that prop but couldn't talk my son (financial partner) = to go along. It sounded like a very good prop. If you want to get rid of = it, let me know. Wendell > Regarding the prop, this is the prop that Ron Gowan had on his = rotary=20 > powered LongEZ. It is designed for 160 hp (rather than 120hp). It = is=20 > similar to what the 0320 LongEZ guys are using. Ron Gowan got 195 = mph in=20 > his rotary powered LongEZ with this prop at 6000 rpm's. I was = initially=20 > unable to get above 5100 rpm's (until I removed the cowling and = found the=20 > REAL power problem). Now that I am getting 5600 rpm's static, it is = very=20 > likely that I would be able to get that elusive 6000 rpms once the = prop=20 > unloads, and my engine is getting cold ram air instead of heated = cowling=20 > air. Paul Conner >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Jim Sower" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:39 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: I found the power >=20 >=20 > > Paul, > > I'm inquiring into the adequacy of the NACA duct(s) you want to = use to=20 > > feed your throttle body. If I wasn't really confident that they = would=20 > > perform as advertised (it's hard to make them work really well in = the low=20 > > pressure areas of the fuselage) I'd be inclined to use a P-51 type = > > external scoop like you see under right wing of Velocitys or = something=20 > > like that. > > > > As to the prop, I would not use a prop designed for a 120 HP = engine to=20 > > make power estimates on a rotary. I would not fly the airplane = until I=20 > > was getting at least 5000 rpm on a prop comparable to the one ED = used when=20 > > he was running his 2.17 PSRU. Someone with a Lyc O-360 should be = able to=20 > > lend you a prop to test with for a while if your prop is a little = radical. > > > > 5200 rpm on a 62 x 66 prop is not useful for power determination. = If you=20 > > look at prop rpm (2390) it tells you that you have about the same = power as=20 > > an O-235 - about 110 - 115 hp. Somehow you've got to extract a = lot more=20 > > power out of that machine. Maybe check out your fuel flow on your = high=20 > > power turn ups and ponder that for a while. > > > > I would not fly that airplane until I was getting good rpm with a = REAL=20 > > prop ... Jim S. > > > > Paul wrote: > > > >> Hi, Jim....I still had the smaller 62 x 66 prop on at the time. = Regarding=20 > >> the size of the NACA duct, are you referring to the large one on = the=20 > >> bottom of the fuselage, or the proposed two smaller ones for = bringing in=20 > >> air to my throttlebody? Take care. Paul Conner > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sower" = > >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:30 PM > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: I found the power > >> > >> > >>> Paul, > >>> What size prop is this that gives you 5600 rpm now? Is it still = the one=20 > >>> off of the O-235 or have you gone back to your original? What's = the=20 > >>> total area of the NACA duct (like top view)? > >>> Just wonderin' ... Jim S. > >>> > >>> Paul wrote: > >>> > >>>> Today I finished installing the firesleeve on the remaing fuel = lines,=20 > >>>> made some stand-offs so that the fuel lines would not be right = up=20 > >>>> against the engine, and finished hooking up and securing a few = other=20 > >>>> items. With the top cowling off, I ran the pumps for a minute, = then=20 > >>>> checked for leaks...none found. Then I started the engine and = ran it=20 > >>>> for 20 or so seconds and shut it down and reinspected for fuel = leaks.=20 > >>>> None found. I restarted and taxiied away from the hangar a bit = so as=20 > >>>> to not be as loud for others in and near the hangar and did a = full=20 > >>>> power runup. I hit 5600 static rpm's. In the past, the best I = could=20 > >>>> hope for was 5200, most of the time settling for 5100 rpm's. I = taxiied=20 > >>>> back in and installed the top cowling....max rpm's 5100. Took = the top=20 > >>>> cowling back off....max rpm's 5600. One more try....5100 with = the=20 > >>>> cowling back on. It is beginning to become more clear to me, = that one=20 > >>>> of two things are affecting rpm's. Option one is that with the = top=20 > >>>> cowling on the engine is ingesting heated air and just cannot = develop=20 > >>>> the same power as when it ingests outside unheated air. Option = two is=20 > >>>> the muffler bearing may be worn. I'm kinda leaning toward = option one. > >>>> I was thinking of installing two small NACA ducts on the = bottom of=20 > >>>> my cowling with two hoses coming up to feed air to my TWM = throttlebody.=20 > >>>> The NACA ducts I purchased from Van's RV (made for cowling = ventilation)=20 > >>>> already have a male outlet already molded in the assembly, so = you just=20 > >>>> slide a hose over it and secure with a clamp. Very simple=20 > >>>> installation.(Works well for my cabin ventillation) If I recall = > >>>> correctly, they are about the same size as my throttle body = bore. I=20 > >>>> wonder if I will loose much efficiency as the air goes through = the=20 > >>>> corregated hose, and if the Van's RV ventillation NACA ducts = will=20 > >>>> provide a sufficient volume of air. Of course while flying, I = would=20 > >>>> have the advantage of a little bit of ram effect as well as the = ability=20 > >>>> to suck in fresh outside air that has not been heated inside = the=20 > >>>> cowling during taxi/takeoff run. Any opinions/suggestions = would of=20 > >>>> course be much appreciated. I will discuss the vapor lock = issue in the=20 > >>>> next post, so as to not complicate responses, etc. Thanks to = all who=20 > >>>> reply. Paul Conner > >>>> > >>>> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >>>> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: = 2/14/2005 > >>>> > >>>> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>>>>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>>>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --=20 > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >>> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: = 2/14/2005 > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > --=20 > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: = 2/14/2005 > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 >=20 >=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_01CE_01C5159C.5708E790 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Wendell....I still have some = testing to do, and=20 if and when I install my street ported 4-port with high compression = rotors, I=20 may need to go back to the larger prop. If successful, then I would not = need the=20 prop I got from Ron Gowan.  Will keep you informed.  Paul=20 Conner
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wendell = Voto=20
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 = 9:10=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: I = found the=20 power

I almost bought that prop but couldn't talk = my son=20 (financial partner) to go along. It sounded like a very good prop. If = you want=20 to get rid of it, let me know.
Wendell
>     Regarding the prop, this is the prop that = Ron=20 Gowan had on his rotary
> powered LongEZ.  It is designed = for 160=20 hp (rather than 120hp). It is
> similar to what the 0320 LongEZ = guys=20 are using.  Ron Gowan got 195 mph in
> his rotary powered = LongEZ=20 with this prop at 6000 rpm's.  I was initially
> unable to = get=20 above 5100 rpm's (until I removed the cowling and found the
> = REAL=20 power problem). Now that I am getting 5600 rpm's static, it is very =
>=20 likely that I would be able to get that elusive 6000 rpms once the = prop=20
> unloads, and my engine is getting cold ram air instead of = heated=20 cowling
> air.  Paul Conner
>
> ----- = Original=20 Message -----
> From: "Jim Sower" <canarder@frontiernet.net>=
>=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>=20 Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:39 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: I=20 found the power
>
>
> > Paul,
> > I'm=20 inquiring into the adequacy of the NACA duct(s) you want to use to =
>=20 > feed your throttle body.  If I wasn't really confident that = they=20 would
> > perform as advertised (it's hard to make them work = really=20 well in the low
> > pressure areas of the fuselage) I'd be = inclined=20 to use a P-51 type
> > external scoop like you see under = right wing=20 of Velocitys or something
> > like that.
> = >
> >=20 As to the prop, I would not use a prop designed for a 120 HP engine to =
> > make power estimates on a rotary.  I would not fly = the=20 airplane until I
> > was getting at least 5000 rpm on a prop = comparable to the one ED used when
> > he was running his = 2.17=20 PSRU.  Someone with a Lyc O-360 should be able to
> > = lend you=20 a prop to test with for a while if your prop is a little = radical.
>=20 >
> > 5200 rpm on a 62 x 66 prop is not useful for power=20 determination.  If you
> > look at prop rpm (2390) it = tells you=20 that you have about the same power as
> > an O-235 - about = 110 - 115=20 hp.  Somehow you've got to extract a lot more
> > power = out of=20 that machine.  Maybe check out your fuel flow on your high =
> >=20 power turn ups and ponder that for a while.
> >
> > = I would=20 not fly that airplane until I was getting good rpm with a REAL =
> >=20 prop ... Jim S.
> >
> > Paul wrote:
> = >
>=20 >> Hi, Jim....I still had the smaller 62 x 66 prop on at the = time.=20 Regarding
> >> the size of the NACA duct, are you = referring to=20 the large one on the
> >> bottom of the fuselage, or the = proposed=20 two smaller ones for bringing in
> >> air to my=20 throttlebody?  Take care.  Paul Conner
> = >>
>=20 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sower" <canarder@frontiernet.net>=
>=20 >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>=20 >> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:30 PM
> >> = Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: I found the power
> >>
> = >>
>=20 >>> Paul,
> >>> What size prop is this that = gives you=20 5600 rpm now?  Is it still the one
> >>> off of = the O-235=20 or have you gone back to your original?  What's the
> = >>>=20 total area of the NACA duct (like top view)?
> >>> Just = wonderin' ... Jim S.
> >>>
> >>> Paul=20 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Today I finished=20 installing the firesleeve on the remaing fuel lines,
> = >>>>=20 made some stand-offs so that the fuel lines would not be right up =
>=20 >>>> against the engine, and finished hooking up and = securing a=20 few other
> >>>> items. With the top cowling = off,  I=20 ran the pumps for a minute, then
> >>>> checked for = leaks...none found.  Then I started the engine and ran it =
>=20 >>>> for 20 or so seconds and shut it down and reinspected = for=20 fuel leaks.
> >>>> None found.  I restarted = and=20 taxiied away from the hangar a bit so as
> >>>> to = not be=20 as loud for others in and near the hangar and did a full
>=20 >>>> power runup.  I hit 5600 static rpm's. In the = past, the=20 best I could
> >>>> hope for was 5200, most of the = time=20 settling for 5100 rpm's.  I taxiied
> >>>> = back in and=20 installed the top cowling....max rpm's 5100.  Took the top =
>=20 >>>> cowling back off....max rpm's 5600.  One more=20 try....5100 with the
> >>>> cowling back on.  = It is=20 beginning to become more clear to me, that one
> = >>>> of=20 two things are affecting rpm's.  Option one is that with the top =
>=20 >>>> cowling on the engine is ingesting heated air and = just cannot=20 develop
> >>>> the same power as when it ingests = outside=20 unheated air.  Option two is
> >>>> the = muffler=20 bearing may be worn.  I'm kinda leaning toward option = one.
>=20 >>>>      I was thinking of = installing=20 two small NACA ducts on the bottom of
> >>>> my = cowling=20 with two hoses coming up to feed air to my TWM throttlebody.
>=20 >>>> The NACA ducts I purchased from Van's RV (made for = cowling=20 ventilation)
> >>>> already have a male outlet = already=20 molded in the assembly, so you just
> >>>> slide a = hose=20 over it and secure with a clamp. Very simple
> >>>> = installation.(Works well for my cabin ventillation) If I recall =
>=20 >>>> correctly, they are about the same size as my = throttle body=20 bore. I
> >>>> wonder if I will loose much = efficiency as=20 the air goes through the
> >>>> corregated hose, = and if the=20 Van's RV ventillation NACA ducts will
> >>>> = provide a=20 sufficient volume of air. Of course while flying, I would
>=20 >>>> have the advantage of a little bit of ram effect as = well as=20 the ability
> >>>> to suck in fresh outside air = that has=20 not been heated inside the
> >>>> cowling during=20 taxi/takeoff run.  Any opinions/suggestions would of
>=20 >>>> course be much appreciated.  I will discuss the = vapor=20 lock issue in the
> >>>> next post, so as to not = complicate=20 responses, etc.  Thanks to all who
> >>>> = reply. =20 Paul Conner
> >>>>
> >>>>=20 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------<= BR>>=20 >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No = virus=20 found in this outgoing message.
> >>>> Checked by = AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
> >>>> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus = Database:=20 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
> >>>>
>=20 >>>>=20 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------<= BR>>=20 >>>>
> >>>>
> = >>>>
>=20 >>>>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = >>>>>> Archive:   http://lancai= ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20 >>>>>>
> >>>
>=20 >>>>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = >>>>>  Archive:   http://lancai= ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20 >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
>=20 >>> --
> >>> No virus found in this incoming=20 message.
> >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> = >>>=20 Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: = 2/14/2005
>=20 >>>
> >>>
> >>
> = >>
>=20 >>
> >>
> >
> >>> =20 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = >>>  Archive:   http://lancai= ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20 >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this = incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > = Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: = 2/14/2005
>=20 >
> >
>
>
>
>
> -- =
> No=20 virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - = Release Date:=20 2/14/2005
>
>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = >>  Archive:   http://lancai= ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release = Date:=20 2/14/2005
------=_NextPart_000_01CE_01C5159C.5708E790-- --=======AVGMAIL-42160D7049E0======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 --=======AVGMAIL-42160D7049E0=======--