Return-Path: Received: from [129.116.87.170] (HELO MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 729508 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:50:38 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=129.116.87.170; envelope-from=mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C51365.3A3194BF" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design - Jet Pump Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:49:53 -0600 Message-ID: <87DBA06C9A5CB84B80439BA09D86E69EC07F59@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design - Jet Pump Thread-Index: AcUTIK3xjAFUTqqwQ9SOPEWbqlD4IQAQ3aQA From: "Mark R Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C51365.3A3194BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,=20 Sorry, I mis-quoted... it appears these are used on Toyota cars/trucks, not Fords. I imagine you could get an entire fuel pump and jet pump assembly from a late model wreck. Check with the Toyota dealer. Nice thing about the jet pump is there's no moving parts, hence nothing to wear out. At the very least, it could make a cheap, lightweight backup to the facet transfer pump. The article can be read at http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h42.pdf =20 Mark S.=20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sower Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:38 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design - Jet Pump =20 Is there compelling evidence that a jet pump will last longer than a Facet pump? What do they cost? =20 Mark R Steitle wrote:=20 Tracy, I believe the Jet Pump works off fuel rerouted from the main pump, not the return fuel. You may need a higher gpm pump in order to provide enough flow for WOT operations though. If you controlled the transfer process with a couple of sensors in the main tank, one for upper limit and another for low limit, it could be a fully automatic system. =20 Mark S. =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Tracy Crook Sent: Mon 2/14/2005 7:17 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design - Jet Pump =20 Thoughts on the jet pump: =20 Jet pump requires a restriction (jet) in the return line. ANY pressure in the return line adds to the regulated fuel pressure which means your regulator doesn't regulate accurately any more. Remember that return flow will change with power setting. =20 Fuel tank levels needs to be controlled in order to eliminate a 'heavy wing' which is very fatiguing on a long cross country. Aileron trim can do it but that adds drag. A valve can be used but that adds to the complexity again. =20 Tracy =20 =20 Ed,=20 =20 Thanks for that excellent article on fuel system design. In reading through it, on page 5, I came to the description of the jet pump and had a thought (that alone is a scary thing). I was thinking that this could be used to eliminate the need for the facet pump in a design such as Tracy's which would simplify things even more than Tracy's system already does. Of course, as in Tracy's design, this would eliminate the need for the fuel selector valve too. As it was designed to do, the Jet Pump would be powered by excess fuel from the main fuel pump located in the left tank. Fuel from the other (right) wing tank would be drawn into the main (left) tank by the Jet Pump. To prevent overfilling the main tank, transfer could be controlled by a small solenoid valve. Since you would be drawing fuel from the right tank pretty much all the time, it may be possible to route the return fuel to the right tank. I guess this idea could also be used with a sump tank. Time for a sa nity check. =20 =20 =20 =20 Mark S. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ =20 =20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C51365.3A3194BF Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jim,

Sorry, I mis-quoted… it = appears these are used on Toyota cars/trucks, not Fords.  I imagine you could get an entire fuel = pump and jet pump assembly from a late model wreck.  Check with the = Toyota = dealer.  Nice thing about the jet pump is there’s no moving parts, hence nothing = to wear out.  At the very least, it could make a cheap, lightweight = backup to the facet transfer pump.  The article can be read at = http://www.autoshop101.= com/forms/h42.pdf

 

Mark S.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sower
Sent: Monday, February = 14, 2005 11:38 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fuel System Design - Jet Pump

 

Is there compelling evidence that a jet pump = will last longer than a Facet pump?  What do they cost? 

Mark R Steitle wrote: 

Tracy,
I believe the Jet Pump works off fuel =
rerouted from the main pump, not the return fuel.  You may need a =
higher gpm pump in order to provide enough flow for WOT operations =
though.  If you controlled the transfer process with a couple of =
sensors in the main tank, one for upper limit and another for low limit, =
it could be a fully automatic =
system.
 
Mark S.  =

 
 
-----Original =
Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of =
Tracy Crook
Sent: Mon 2/14/2005 7:17 =
PM
To: Rotary motors in =
aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design - =
Jet Pump
 
Thoughts on the jet =
pump:
 
Jet pump requires a restriction (jet) in the =
return line.  ANY pressure in the return line adds to the regulated =
fuel pressure which means your regulator doesn't regulate accurately any =
more.  Remember that return flow will change with power =
setting.
 
Fuel tank levels needs to be controlled in =
order to eliminate a 'heavy wing' which is very fatiguing on a long =
cross country.  Aileron trim can do it but that adds drag.  A =
valve can be used but that adds to the complexity =
again.
 
Tracy
 
 
  Ed, =

 
  Thanks for that excellent article on =
fuel system design.  In reading through it, on page 5, I came to =
the description of the jet pump and had a thought (that alone is a scary =
thing).  I was thinking that this could be used to eliminate the =
need for the facet pump in a design such as Tracy's which would simplify =
things even more than Tracy's system already does.  Of course, as =
in Tracy's =
design, this would eliminate the need for the fuel selector valve =
too.  As it was designed to do, the Jet Pump would be powered by =
excess fuel from the main fuel pump located in the left tank.  Fuel =
from the other (right) wing tank would be drawn into the main (left) =
tank by the Jet Pump.  To prevent overfilling the main tank, =
transfer could be controlled by a small solenoid valve.  Since you =
would be drawing fuel from the right tank pretty much all the time, it =
may be possible to route the return fuel to the right tank.  I =
guess this idea could also be used with a sump tank.  Time for a =
sa
nity check.  =

 
   =

 
  Mark S.    =

 
   =

 
  
 






 
  
 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
 Archive:   http://lancai=
ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
<= pre>      =
------_=_NextPart_001_01C51365.3A3194BF--