Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #17220
From: George Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Jet Pump
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:58:29 +1000
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Yep Ed!
Sure does.
The one concern of Tracy's very simple direct system, was the transfer system - I suppose you could have a hand pump back-up.
 
At this point in time, I'm thinking ( for a low wing design) a small exterior sump tank (under the pilot), Gravity fed ( maintaining equal fuel distribution from both tanks - like a water level) with duel pumps inside the sump tank, which is vented to one or both wing tanks.
 
Being exterior it's easier to get at for maintenace and repair, no probs with fuel in the cockpit or fumes and kept cool.
 
George (down under)
George, its actually a siphon pump for a two tank system.  They use the fuel being released by the fuel pressure regulator in one tank and run it through a restriction ( a Ventura) and it flows through the Ventura (returning back into the main tank) it develops a low pressure, this low pressure region of the jet is plumbed to the second tank.  The "suction" action pulls fuel from the second tank into the main tank where the EFI pump, "Jet pump" and fuel pressure regulator are all located.  This is used as a "transfer" pump but does not require another "electric" pump such as a facet pump that many of us use as either a boost pump or fuel transfer pump. Interesting concept for sure - but if for some reason something would break the "siphon" effect (say trash in the Ventura) then NO fuel transfer from the second tank. But, then a transfer pump can fail as well - sigh nothing never breaks {:>)
 
Hope this explains it well enough.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design - Jet Pump

 
Mark/Ed,
What's a Jet pump?
George ( down under)
 
Good Idea, Mark
 
I think that people get pretty hung up and adamant about certain things - even though they may indeed work. While all fuel systems clearly require careful design and construction attention, some appear to require even more scrutiny.  What I think sometimes gets folks in trouble is they "copy" a design they have seen/hear works.  However, they seldom ever copy the design faithfully either due to space/configuration constraints - or they have an "improvement" to it.  The bottom line is the system has changed, "Yes, Virginia, it may really matter as to whether the pickup is at the top vs the bottom, etc. ".
 
Even Tracy's system can byte you if you are not careful.  You must pay attention to fuel transfer or you can end up with the return fuel pushing out the vent of the return tank.  So while I do believe his design eliminates (or certainly diminishes the chance of vapor lock) - you now must carefully monitor how much fuel is in the return tank.  I believe Tracy uses a facet pump to move fuel from one tank to the other - which even though unlikely, could fail leaving fuel unavailable.  I would have to agree though that scenario certainly would leave you a bit more time to consider your options - than a faltering engine on take off. 
 
But, yes, it would appear that the "jet pump" might indeed be a replacement for the facet pump.  Interesting concept.
 
Ed A 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel System Design - Jet Pump

Ed,

Thanks for that excellent article on fuel system design.  In reading through it, on page 5, I came to the description of the jet pump and had a thought (that alone is a scary thing).  I was thinking that this could be used to eliminate the need for the facet pump in a design such as Tracy’s which would simplify things even more than Tracy’s system already does.  Of course, as in Tracy’s design, this would eliminate the need for the fuel selector valve too.  As it was designed to do, the Jet Pump would be powered by excess fuel from the main fuel pump located in the left tank.  Fuel from the other (right) wing tank would be drawn into the main (left) tank by the Jet Pump.  To prevent overfilling the main tank, transfer could be controlled by a small solenoid valve.  Since you would be drawing fuel from the right tank pretty much all the time, it may be possible to route the return fuel to the right tank.  I guess this idea could also be used with a sump tank.  Time for a sanity check. 

 

Mark S.    

 

Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster