Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 728992 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:24:01 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j1F0N9kd023068 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:23:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001901c512f4$8e1ea3a0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: More on Header Tanks, Venting & Pressure Reg Position Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:23:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C512CA.A50AA840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C512CA.A50AA840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, don't know what to tell you. The article is a pdf file and = required no password for me to open. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: More on Header Tanks, = Venting & Pressure Reg Position Ed , My system says it needs a pass-word to read. George ( down under) A typo in my original message .....apparently just set the pressure high - like 65psi and use an = intake regulator to keep it at that pressure. ...... The sentence should read .... like 65 psi and use an in-tank = regulator to keep it at that pressure........ Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:45 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More on Header Tanks, Venting & Pressure = Reg Position > Ernest, >=20 > Looks like a well thought out design. I believe the secret is = keeping all > fuel lines likely to accumulate any significant amount of heat = from the > engine/exhaust/etc highly pressurized. That is the way the recent > "returnless" automobile EFIs are keeping vapor lock from = happening. Some > have a ECM function which rapidly changes the fuel pressure to = compensate > for certain variables they do not even require a pressure = regulator, Others > apparently just set the pressure high - like 65psi and use an = intake > regulator to keep it at that pressure. >=20 > Ford converted the 4 cylinder trucks to a returnless fuel system = in 1998. > This system uses a single high-pressure pump in the tank, and an = in-tank > pressure relief valve that opens once fuel line pressure reaches = 65 psi > controls fuel pressure. Excess fuel is released out of the relief = valve and > back into the tank. Fuel moves from the pump through a single = plastic line > to a filter mounted on the driver's side frame rail, then up to = the fuel > rail on the intake manifold. Lines in these systems use all = spring-style > connectors. This system will not allow fuel rail pressure to = exceed 65 psi > because of the pressure relief valve, so if your planned boost = levels are > going to put your needs above this level, you'll need to convert = to a return > style fuel system. >=20 > Page 2 of this pdf has a diagram of the Toyota returnless system = as well as > a description. >=20 > http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h42.pdf >=20 > A description of the Neon returnless system >=20 > Here's the basics. >=20 > a.. How the System is designed to work: > a.. The Neon uses a returnless fuel system, fuel is pumped up = from the > tank to the injectors without using a return line. This means = that all the > fun stuff like pressure control is handled under the middle of the = car at > the fuel tank. > b.. The fuel pump is mounted in the tank and pushes fuel up = out of the > tank at a full 130psi. There is only one pump unlike a lot of EFI = systems > which use a "lift" pump to get fuel out of the tank and then = another to > boost the pressure up to spec. > c.. In all 1st generation Neons and in the PL2000 until the = 2001 model > year the pressure at the fuel rail is regulated at 49psi. The = regulator is > always fitted in or on the tank at the pumps outlet. > d.. For the 2001 models (and across the whole Chrysler range) = the fuel > pressure was bumped up to 58psi. Apparently there were no other = changes > made so it is possible to swap regulators. > e.. All the fuel systems have a in-tank filter mounted to the = end of the > pump. This is known either as an inlet strainer or as a fuel = filter. It > can be changed - but you will need to drop the tank to change it. = Here's a > pic taken by Emilio and posted to the Neons.org boards. The part = number for > this filter (well for a 1999 DOHC but they all interchange in = PLASTIC TANKED > cars) is "04897416". >=20 > You'r moving along rapidly >=20 >=20 > Ed A >=20 >=20 >=20 > > Ding! Ding! > > Class is now in session. I have my pen and paper in hand, ready = to take > > notes. > > >=20 >=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > ---- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > ---- >=20 >=20 > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C512CA.A50AA840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George, don't know what to tell = you.  The=20 article is a pdf file and required no password for me to = open.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 = 5:13=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: More on Header Tanks, Venting & Pressure Reg Position

Ed ,
My system says it needs a pass-word = to=20 read.
George ( down under)
A typo in my original = message
 

.....apparently just set the = pressure high=20 - like 65psi and use an=20 intake
regulator to keep it at that = pressure. =20 ......
 
The sentence should read .... like = 65 psi and=20 use an in-tank = regulator to keep=20 it at that pressure........
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 = 3:45=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More on = Header Tanks,=20 Venting & Pressure Reg Position

> Ernest,
>
> Looks like a well thought out = design.  I believe the secret is keeping all
> fuel lines = likely=20 to accumulate any significant amount of heat from the
>=20 engine/exhaust/etc highly pressurized.  That is the way the=20 recent
> "returnless" automobile EFIs are keeping vapor lock = from=20 happening.  Some
> have a ECM  function which = rapidly=20 changes the fuel pressure to compensate
> for certain = variables they=20 do not even require a pressure regulator, Others
> apparently = just set=20 the pressure high - like 65psi and use an intake
> regulator = to keep=20 it at that pressure.
>
> Ford converted the 4 cylinder = trucks=20 to a returnless fuel system in 1998.
> This system uses a = single=20 high-pressure pump in the tank, and an in-tank
> pressure = relief valve=20 that opens once fuel line pressure reaches 65 psi
> controls = fuel=20 pressure. Excess fuel is released out of the relief valve = and
> back=20 into the tank. Fuel moves from the pump through a single plastic=20 line
> to a filter mounted on the driver's side frame rail, = then up to=20 the fuel
> rail on the intake manifold. Lines in these systems = use all=20 spring-style
> connectors. This system will not allow fuel = rail=20 pressure to exceed 65 psi
> because of the pressure relief = valve, so=20 if your planned boost levels are
> going to put your needs = above this=20 level, you'll need to convert to a return
> style fuel = system.
>=20
> Page 2 of this  pdf has a diagram of the Toyota = returnless=20 system as well as
> a description.
>
> http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h42.pdf
>
> A description of the Neon = returnless=20 system
>
> Here's the basics.
>
>   = a.. How=20 the System is designed to work:
>     a.. The = Neon uses=20 a returnless fuel system, fuel is pumped up from the
> tank to = the=20 injectors without using a return line.  This means that all = the
>=20 fun stuff like pressure control is handled under the middle of the = car=20 at
> the fuel tank.
>     b.. The fuel = pump is=20 mounted in the tank and pushes fuel up out of the
> tank at a = full=20 130psi.  There is only one pump unlike a lot of EFI = systems
>=20 which use a "lift" pump to get fuel out of the tank and then another = to
> boost the pressure up to spec.
>     = c.. In=20 all 1st generation Neons and in the PL2000 until the 2001 = model
> year=20 the pressure at the fuel rail is regulated at 49psi.  The = regulator=20 is
> always fitted in or on the tank at the pumps = outlet.
>=20     d.. For the 2001 models (and across the whole = Chrysler=20 range) the fuel
> pressure was bumped up to 58psi.  = Apparently=20 there were no other changes
> made so it is possible to swap=20 regulators.
>     e.. All the fuel systems have = a=20 in-tank filter mounted to the end of the
> pump.  This is = known=20 either as an inlet strainer or as a fuel filter.  It
> = can be=20 changed - but you will need to drop the tank to change it.  = Here's=20 a
> pic taken by Emilio and posted to the Neons.org = boards.  The=20 part number for
> this filter (well for a 1999 DOHC but they = all=20 interchange in PLASTIC TANKED
> cars) is "04897416".
> =
>=20 You'r moving along rapidly
>
>
> Ed  = A
>=20
>
>
> > Ding! Ding!
> > Class is = now in=20 session.  I have my pen and paper in hand, ready to = take
> >=20 notes.
> >
>
>
>=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
>=20 ----
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
>=20 ----
>
>
> > >>  Homepage:  = http://www.flyrotary.com/
>=20 > >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html> >
>
>
>
>=20 >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>=20 >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
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