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Hi, Leon thanks for taking the time to go into such
detail (as is customary for you) regarding suggestions for tuning my engine,
etc. I took no offense with your comments. I would never be upset
that someone is looking out for me. Removing the engine, coils, ECU,
handset, exhaust, etc would be labor intensive, as the coils are mounted on the
firewall, the wiring for the ignition and handset go all the way from the
firewall to the instrument panel in a narrow center console that took hours to
"snake" the wires through, (engine is in the rear, and panel is in the front on
a pusher) the handset is hard-mounted to the instrument panel, and the
engine is mounted with an aluminum plate sandwiched between the oil pan and
block, so removal would require reassembling the pan, shortening the oil pickup
tube so that I could install the pan without the 1/2" thick aluminum spacer, my
water pump has -16 AN fittings welded to it, so the dyno tuner could not use
radiator hoses, and a host of other tasks, which while not impossible, are very
time consuming to say the least. I would gladly pay a lot of money for
someone to do it on site. (mobile tuners).
As far as the fuel tank
debris is concerned, that is a well known fact amongst the canard
community. I am fortunate that my fuel strakes are different from other
fiberglass canards, in that they are already completely formed by the factory,
(a top and bottom), with fuel tank openings already installed prior to
installing them, so there is no drilling, sanding or fabricating, just glassing
the top and bottom together on the fuselage, and that is all done on the outside
of the fuel tanks. I still, however check my fuel filter screen, just in case.
So far, nothing.
Thanks again for all of
your valued input and suggestions. I have not totally given up on the
MicroTech....just considering my alternatives, and as they say, it costs nothing
to do your homework. Yes, I was lucky to get the aircraft (and myself)
safely back to Earth in one piece. I don't care to repeat that excercise any
time soon....I am going to pull the spark plugs today and take a good look at
them, and start my trouble shooting expedition. Take care, and thanks
again for your valued input. Hey....if you'd like a mini vacation in the
states, we'd be happy to put you up and buy you steak and
lobster....
Paul, I'm so
confused, Conner
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 5:28
AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] To Paul Re:
[FlyRotary] Re: Microtech EFI and Tuning
Hi Paul,
Look mate, I really feel for you over
there, and what's happening. I wasn't having a "go" at you,
or trying to belittle you. Far from it. It was Tom's uninformed
comment that really got up my nose, hence the abrasive reply. I'm
not normally quite as manic!
Indeed, I just wish I could personally
assist you, but we are 12,000 miles apart. Personally, I
don't think your fan stoppage has anything to do with the ECU itself. It
will be most probably be something silly and trivial. I think in one of
my previous email exchanges with you, I made the point that diagnosis of
faults has to be done in a systematic fashion, but as I'm so far
away, I can only give you broad guidelines.
As it happens, I was talking to a mate of
mine who writes C of As for Experimental Aircraft here in Oz about your
predicament this afternoon . When I told him it was a composite
aircraft, his comment was that statistically, fuel
filters have been known to clog between 4 and ten hours on such
aircraft with monotonous regularity. His advice is to change the fuel
filters every 2 hours until they don't have any more debris in
them.
Apparently, (and I'm no expert in this but
he is), all the left over stuff in the composite fuel tanks (the
dust, glass fibre, and the coating material etc) will be
flushed out and it does a real good job of clogging the fuel filters(s).
Doesn't matter how scrupulous you are with cleanliness, you just can't
get rid of ALL the junk. So two, three or sometimes four fuel
filter changes are "de rigueur" until they are clear of such debris. So
first thing would be to check the filters. The other obvious thing is to
check for water in your tanks. The third obvious thing would be a
dud fuse, or a loose wire somewhere. Those are the three things
I'd be looking at first. Then go looking for the more esoteric things
like blocked tank vents, crimped fuel lines, etc.
Back to engine tuning. Unless we
here in Oz are wired up totally differently to engine tuners in the
USA, I'm pretty sure you could go to any professional dyno
tuner, give him the MicroTech manual, pay him a some bux to sit
down on his butt and study it, and he would know exactly how
to tune the thing the very next day. See, if a dipstick like me
can learn to do it, (and I'm sure there are people in your corner of the
woods that are a LOT smarter than me), a good Yankee dyno
man will pick up on it in a flash.
So you first need to find a friendly dyno tuner
in your area who can tune preferably either Motec, or Autronic
EFI, but almost any after-market EFI system will do. Anyone who
can tune either of these two units will find the Microtech primitive by
comparison, and very simple to tune. But tuning DOES require a
basic understanding of engine tuning procedures, and how engines
ACTUALLY work. I'd say that ANY good auto electrician/EFI person would
get his head around the manual in two or three hours. The prime
requisite is that you know how EFI systems work, understand Air/Fuel
ratios, and can use a gas analyser and/or Lambda meter.
To get the engine tuned on an engine
dyno, you would need to take the whole engine, complete with
manifolds, water pump etc. Most engine dyno shops have their
own fuel supply system for EFI, and their own cooling systems for oil
& water. You would also need to take your ECU, the hand
set, and the wiring loom. You would need to talk to the particular
shop concerned to see exactly what else they needed. By using an
engine dyno, you will find out exactly how much torque, and
how many BHP you have at each RPM point (normally every 500 RPM is
sufficient), just as Al did.
However, we also have blokes over here who
are mobile tuners. They will come to you. There must be similar
services in the USA. To set the thing up pretty close, all that is
needed is an accurate Air/Fuel ratio meter and a 4 wire Lambda sensor.
As I said, I can do a Microtech pretty close to right in
an hour, starting from scratch.
As an aside, an Ellison might be just as
much trouble. I heartily concur with Bill Jepson who made the point
that Ellisons are designed for big bore, lazy piston engines. The
vacuum signal, and the air flow characteristics of a Lyc are very
different to a Wankel. As I have no idea how an Ellison meters it's
fuel, I could be wrong, but I could see you needing to put in some
considerable time tuning the thing anyway.
As a ROUGH comparison, to run a 13B on
an IDA or DCOE Weber, it needs a minimum of 2 by 38 mm
(1.5") chokes to provide around 180 BHP @ 6,500 RPM. This
would equate to around a single 54-55 mm choke as a bare minimum.
Anyway, if I can be of any more
assistance, feel free to email me at any time. But please,
take care with your flying. I was scared witless just reading about your
last escapade!! You are obviously a really cool customer, and an
exceptional pilot.
Cheers mate,
Leon
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 6:39
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Microtech EFI
and Tuning, was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad day at the airport
Hi, Leon....thanks for responding. I am
not quite sure I understand what you meant about the risks I have taken so
far. I have done many full power runups on the ground with the nose of
the aircraft up against my van (with a large 8inch deep block of foam
inbetween), and adjusted the mixtures until I got the highest rpm's I could,
then continued leaning until the egt peaked, then started to surge, then
richened it back up until it ran smoothly and the egt's stabilized. I
got up to 5100 rpms static, and most people told me that the prop would most
likely unload in flight. How can I obtain more than 5100 rpm's unless
I fly it? I have 9.5 hours of smooth, uneventful flight, without the
engine ever missing a beat. I always climbed to at least 2500 feet
directly above the airport prior to making any mixture changes. My primary
concern with my engine is the lack of power, which you said was because I
have a turbo engine without a turbo, which would only give me around 140
horsepower. After reading your recommendations, I am presently building
a street ported 4-port with NA rotors and housings.
I guess I don't
understand your statement "Considering the risks Paul has taken so far....he
should take the engine out of the aircraft, take it to a professional engine
tuner and stick it on a dyno, and get it properly tuned". If I take it
off the aircraft, do I also take along both fuel pumps, filters, hoses,
surge tank, MicroTech ECU, handset, exhaust system, wiring harness,
etc?
As far as bucks,
that is no problem. I would gladly spend the money for safety. I
talked to Dave Atkins several times regarding this. He was somewhat helpful,
but I kinda got the feeling I was taking him away from his work.
He is over 2000 miles away, so coming to Alabama to tune if for me is
not an option. I checked with the local Mazda rebuilder, and he
has rebuilt many rotaries, but has never used a MicroTech
ECU. I had no luck locating anyone familiar with the MicroTech in
the yellow pages of the phone book. That's one of the reasons I am considering a carburetor....all of the
A&P mechanics at the airport are familiar with the aircraft
carburetor....none of them are familiar with the MicroTech. I would be more
than happy to pay for the help....I just can't find it. As far as
MicroTech, I even contacted MicroTech USA and asked them if they had the
original factory default settings so that I could reset my unit to factory
default settings, and they told me to contact the dealer I purchased it
from. I asked Dave Atkins, (I purchased it from Dave) and he does not have
that information. I called MicroTech back, and they informed me that was
because Atkins Rotary is not an authorized MicroTech dealer. Guess I
am out of luck. Thanks for all the support, MicroTech.
I wish to point
out that I am in no way condemming the MicroTech ECU. It was easy to install
with it's pre-wired harness and excellent instruction manual and schematics.
It has more features than I will ever use, to include data mapping. You can
even limit rpm's, boost, turn on auxillary cooling fans, change the timing,
mixture, amount of milliseconds the injectors are open, adjust how much
extra fuel is injected for cold start enrichment, hell, I think it will even
cook your breakfast and do the dishes. Finding someone familiar with the
MicroTech for assistance is another story, however. Paul
Conner
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:34
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Microtech EFI
and Tuning, was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad day at the airport
Hey Tom,
Couldn't help reading your
comment:
"Microtech isn't that cheap and sofar not proven that reliable
overall."
That sort of comment REALLY, REALLY gets up my
nose, especially coming from someone who is inexperienced in these
matters. I've been selling and tuning these things since the early
'90s!! I was also involved in the early development of them for
rotaries as far back as '1992. So let's tackle your
assertions:
PRICE
Firstly, price wise, they are $1250 AUD here in
Oz. If anyone is silly enough to pay double that in the US,
then good luck!!! At current exchange rates (76 cents),
that's UNDER a grand USD. Plus $85 AUD for a 3 Kg EMS courier
bag, (gets there in a few days, ask Todd Bartrim), plus
whatever fees, taxes, and import duties you pay at your
end. That price includes the hand set. The LT-8/LTX-8
units, without the handset, are $1050/1095 AUD (around
$800/830 USD). For another $150 AUD ($115 USD), you get
the laptop dongle and software for a full EIS display on a computer
screen, and includes full Data Logging etc.
See:.
So for Under $2,000 USD (plus taxes and
import duties etc), you can have COMPLETE redundancy (buy two units
and one handset), plus a full EIS display, plus
Logging!!! Compare that with whatever else is available on the
market!!!! NOTHING even comes close price wise!!!!
RELIABILTY
Secondly, there have been literally THOUSANDS and
THOUSANDS of units sold here and overseas over a period of 12
years, `and they are VERY, VERY,
VERY reliable. If you can't afford a Motec or an Autronic,
then the ONLY (in my opinion anyway) other reliable option is a
Microtech. But PLEASE don't blame the equipment when it is the
OPERATOR!!! Which brings me to the next point ...
TUNABILITY
Thirdly, as with any fuel injection/engine management system
(doesn't matter WHAT brand), you still need to have the engine tuned
correctly. I have already stressed on several occasions in my
correspondence to Paul Conner that he MUST get the engine tuned
properly. If he can't do it himself, then PAY a professional
to do it. It 'ain't hard if you know what you are doing. It's
almost impossible if you DON'T!! Get the Pro to check out the rest
of the EFI system while he's at it.
You either understand how an engine works, or you don't.
If you don't, then pay a Pro to do it for you. Just like you
don't attempt to fix your own teeth, or set your own broken
limbs, or remove your own appendix!!!.
With the aid of a good Air/Fuel ratio meter, I can set up a
Microtech pretty close in about an hour. That's all it
takes. The instructions are clear and precise. But as engine
tuning is a "black art", it does require a certain amount of
experience, and a great deal of understanding. Tuning engines
while flying is just asking for it!! Which brings me to the next
topic ...
RISKY BEHAVIOUR
Considering the risks Paul has
taken so far, (the potential loss his aircraft, not
to mention others), and not to mention his
own life & limb (and possibly those of others), I am of the
opinion that he should take the engine out of the aircraft, take it
to a professional engine tuner and stick it on a dyno, and get it
properly tuned. CHEAP insurance!!!
Al Geitzen did his tuning on a dyno.
Al's smart, even if we don't agree on BMEP and running turbo rotors
in NA aircraft engines!! (}:>) (Yea Al, I luv youse
too!!). See, Al now knows exactly how much grunt
he's got from his 20B, and at what RPM. No guesswork here. So
he can go to a prop manufacturer and get exactly the right prop first
go.
So why is it all so hard to do things
properly??? If bux are really tight, (and I don't think that's a
problem, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about buying a couple of
Ellisons or a Cessna would we??!!) Then at least tie the plane
down and get a professional tuner to come out and tune the sucker at the
airport, and make sure it is reliable on the ground (lots of high
speed taxi testing with the turkeys) before trying to soar with
eagles.
You are just asking for trouble if the engine
isn't tuned properly, and especially if all the bugs
aren't ironed out of the EFI system and fuel supply etc.
Who actually knows what caused the fan to stop in Paul's case? Water
in the fuel, blocked tank vent? Blocked fuel filter??
Pump failure?? Electrical failure?? Why blame the
EFI??
Anyway, that's my handful of very
abrasive industrial diamond paste for today.
Cheers,
Leon
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005
3:13 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad day at
the airport
Paul, Ellison is a substitute for a carburetor, some kind of 'new'
technology that's been around for some time and seems to be simple &
successful and has a good reputation. Avgas only, like a
Cessna. While there's no venturi they still
recomend carb heat. I'm sure there's a size that's overkill
for the motor now on your bench. They offer units for
hp greater than most of these rotaries can put out.
Your statement of 'carburetor or Cessna' really rang a bell with
me, kind of a wake-up call. As for expense, for me I wouldn't have
to deal with the cost or issues you're encountering with the
fuel-injection setup. Microtech isn't that cheap and sofar not
proven that reliable overall.
Rusty, why would you need more than
one? Consider Tracy's current intake setup for
his Renesis, essentially remove the injector hardware and replace his
throttle plate with an Ellison.
I've been sketching manifolds this morning and i can see they'd not
be that difficult to make out of either aluminum or
steel.
Warning, I have no first-hand experience with Ellison's. Just
what I've gleaned from magazines and the internet.
My .01cent
Tom
Paul <sqpilot@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Does an Ellison throttle body have
injectors, or is it a substitute for a carburetor? Paul
Conner
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