Return-Path: Received: from mail01.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP-TLS id 721362 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 01:18:42 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.182; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d211-31-115-158.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.31.115.158]) by mail01.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j196Guh5001382 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:16:58 +1100 Message-ID: <008601c50e6f$426d8680$9e731fd3@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Apex End Pieces & Super Glue was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine assembled Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:19:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01C50EC3.13114E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C50EC3.13114E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageYep that's all true! You get to see my hands and some of Leon's baggies, he likes to dress = down for a Video shoot. I was a bit disappointed when your mate run out of film Leon! He's a = nice guy and it was good of him to do it, but I was still a bit = disappointed. No wonder I hit the slops, you know one of those days when one is too = many and a thousand isn't enough. So what did Leon do next - Yep drops me in the middle of a Gay Mardi = Gras in Sydney and I had to walk, pissed (inebriated) through that lot = to get to my accommodation - good one Leon! I guess the boys are still laughing about that one. George ( down under) Yo Guys, Here's how I do it. Uncle George had some first hand experience with = this when he visited me a couple of years ago. On the Saturday, I = coached him through an assembly of a 13B turbo Series V engine over a = few beers. We even made a video of it!! Having now used the Tracy/Bruce seals (I bought them from Tracy, but = I know they are Bruce's baby), I can see the best way to assemble them = is to superglue them, just like I have always done with the factory = stuff. The earlier 1202-11-300A 3mm apex seals come with a little piece = of rubber to take the spring pressure off the end piece. However, if = they are second hand, and you don't have the little bits of rubber, so = there is no other option but to glue them. Same principle as the factory two piece 2mm N35-11-C00C seals for the = REW engines. They come factory glued! So do the 12A RX7 seals, as = well as the 3 piece early model 2mm seals. If they are not glued, the = problem is when you are putting the centre housing on, the end pieces = can pop out as the shaft is lifted. Not nice!! The end pices then = become "devil bits" . You end up down on your hands & knees saying = "where the devil did that bit go??" The trick is to scrupulously clean the surfaces with some carby = cleaner/alcohol/MEK/Acetone (whatever liver poison takes your fancy!). = Then lightly scuff the ends of the apex seal and the end piece with some = 400 - 600 wet&dry. Then glue the end piece just ever so SLIGHTLY up = from the top of the main seal. This puts it out a bit as well. Not much = superglue is needed. Just ONE drop is sufficient!! =20 I normally lay the seals down on a piece of plastic. A LIGHT mist of = WD-40 or similar will act as a release compound on the plastic. The = superglue doesn't seem to stick real well to polythene, and if one is = careful, none gets on the plastic anyway.. Only a SMALL drop is = needed. Saves getting it on your claws too!! You will only get it on = your claws if you are a messy child and use too much!! As the housings = are torqued, the glue will break. As George remembers when I showed = him, if it's done correctly, you can actually hear the end pieces = click loose as the bolts are tightened. To insert the apex seal, I normally remove the corner seal, slide = the apex seal down about half way, then install the spring(s). Then = slide the whole box & dice down, being careful not to notch the apex = seal on the edge of the trochoid. The spring(s) need to be compressed = and the seal held off the trochoid a bit (The factory seals are really = soft - Bruce's seals are like glass in comparison). I then re-install = the corner seal and rubber plug, and make sure it rides up and down on = the spring, checking that it depresses below the side of the rotor = face. Anyway guys, that's my little canvas bag full of pesos for today. Cheers, Leon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine assembled Jesse, Yep it can be messy alright. That's why I asked the question. The real question is how do you get the apex seal in that tiny slot = when your finger's stuck permanently to it? George ( down under) Oh yeah; this reminds, how do you get the damn stuff safely off = your finger when you get too much glue on in too much a hurry ? jofarr ----- Original Message ----- From: George Lendich=20 What I have been shown is to superglue the end piece to the apex = seal, with spring place under it, and with the corner seal in place, = gently but firmly slide the apex seal ( one piece now) and spring into = place. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C50EC3.13114E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Yep that's all true!
You get to see my hands and some of = Leon's baggies,=20 he likes to dress down for a Video shoot.
 
I was a bit disappointed when your = mate run=20 out of film Leon!  He's a nice guy and it was good of him to do it, = but I=20 was still a bit disappointed.
 
No wonder I hit the slops, you know one = of those=20 days when one is too many and a thousand isn't enough.
 
So what did Leon do next - Yep drops me = in the=20 middle of a Gay Mardi Gras in Sydney and I had to walk, pissed = (inebriated)=20 through that lot to get to my accommodation - good one = Leon!
 
I guess the boys are still laughing = about that=20 one.
George ( down under)
Yo Guys,
 
Here's how I do it.  Uncle = George had some=20 first hand experience with this when he visited me a couple of years=20 ago.  On the Saturday,  I coached him through an assembly of = a 13B=20 turbo Series V engine over a few beers. We even made a video of=20 it!!
 
Having now used the Tracy/Bruce seals = (I bought=20 them from Tracy,  but I know they are Bruce's baby),  I can = see the=20 best way to assemble them is to superglue them,  just like I have = always=20 done with the factory stuff.  The earlier 1202-11-300A 3mm apex = seals=20 come with a little piece of rubber to take the spring pressure = off the=20 end piece.  However,  if they are second hand,  and you = don't=20 have the little bits of rubber,  so there is no other option but = to glue=20 them.
 
Same principle as the factory two = piece 2mm=20 N35-11-C00C seals for the REW engines.  They come factory = glued!  So=20 do the 12A RX7 seals,  as well as the 3 piece early model = 2mm=20 seals.  If they are not glued,  the problem is when you are = putting=20 the centre housing on,  the end pieces can pop out as the shaft = is=20 lifted.  Not nice!!  The end pices then become "devil=20 bits" .  You end up down on your hands & knees saying = "where the=20 devil did that bit go??"
 
The trick is to scrupulously = clean the=20 surfaces with some carby cleaner/alcohol/MEK/Acetone (whatever liver = poison=20 takes your fancy!).  Then lightly scuff the ends of the apex = seal=20 and the end piece with some 400 - 600 wet&dry.  Then glue the = end=20 piece just ever so SLIGHTLY up from the top of the main = seal. This=20 puts it out a bit as well. Not much superglue is = needed. Just ONE=20 drop is sufficient!!  
 
I normally lay the seals down on a = piece of=20 plastic.  A LIGHT mist of WD-40 or similar will act as a release = compound=20 on the plastic.  The superglue doesn't seem to stick real well to = polythene,  and if one is careful,  none gets on the plastic = anyway..  Only a SMALL drop is needed.  Saves getting = it on=20 your claws too!!  You will only get it on your claws if you = are a=20 messy child and use too much!!  As the housings are = torqued,  the=20 glue will break.  As George remembers when I showed him,  if = it's=20 done correctly,  you can actually hear the end pieces click=20 loose as the bolts are tightened.
 
To insert the apex seal,  I = normally remove=20 the corner seal,  slide the apex seal down about half way,  = then=20 install the spring(s).  Then slide the whole box & dice=20 down,  being careful not to notch the apex seal on the edge of = the=20 trochoid.  The spring(s) need to be compressed and the seal held = off the=20 trochoid a bit  (The factory seals are really soft - Bruce's = seals are=20 like glass in comparison).  I then re-install the corner = seal and=20 rubber plug,  and make sure it rides up and down on the = spring, =20 checking that it depresses below the side of the rotor = face.
 
Anyway guys,  that's my little = canvas bag=20 full of pesos for today.
 
Cheers,
 
Leon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George Lendich
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, = 2005 12:45=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Engine=20 assembled

Jesse,
 
Yep it can be messy alright. That's = why I asked=20 the question.
 
The real question is how do you get = the apex=20 seal in that tiny slot when your finger's stuck permanently to=20 it?
George ( down under)
 
Oh yeah; this reminds, how do you = get the=20 damn stuff safely off your finger when you get too much glue on in = too=20 much a hurry ?
jofarr
----- Original Message ----- = From:=20 George Lendich =
 
What I have been shown is to = superglue the=20 end piece to the apex seal,  with spring place under it, = and with=20 the corner seal in place, gently but firmly slide the apex seal = ( one=20 piece now) and spring into=20 = place.
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C50EC3.13114E40--