Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.9) with ESMTP id 711941 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:49:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j182ljbo024394 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:47:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c50d88$99e0b140$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Bad day at the airport Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:47:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C50D5E.AE953C70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C50D5E.AE953C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, as they say - a good landing is if you wall away from it - an = excellent landing is when the aircraft will fly again without repair and = an Outstanding landing is all of the above but, you don't leave skid = marks on the taxiway. Certainly glad everything ended as well as it did = - good thinking and decision making under a bundle of stress - I know, = I have left skid marks for 300ft after aborting a take off, ended up 12 = ft off in the grass. Here is a wild guess at what could have caused your problem. I would = wager that you did not reprogram the map after putting on the smaller = dia prop. My aborted take off occurred because I had been tuning the = ECU (not Tracy's EC2 - an aftermarket auto unit) with a Laptop - but, of = course I could not tune the map for those rpms above static until I got = airborne. So on the ground, I extrapolated for the higher rpms = figuring to refine them in the air. As soon as I lifted off and had = gained approx 20-30 ft of altitude, the engine revved into the part of = the rpm range that I had extrapolated the Map settings. The engine = immediately dropped from 5000+ rpm to around 3500 rpm, recovered and = surged back to 5000 then died back down to 3500. Despite being airport = and 80MPH I elected to abort on this 2200 ft runway. Touched down = firmly 300ft from the end (measure the tire tracks) got on the binders = very hard (you know what I mean - glad I had the nose wheel) and left = rubber (actually no skids - no flat spots of tires) just rubber digging = into the tarmac from point of touch down to rolling off the grass. I = remember dodging between two end of runway light markers so I wouldn't = ding my flaps. Funny what you think of at times like that..Now, in my = case if I had just had the time to reach over an play with the mixture = control I might have found that full rich would have enabled flight - or = if I had taken one more fraction of a second in making a decision I = truly could have been in bottom of a ravine at the end of the runway. But, the point of my tale is I suspect that one possible cause might be = your engine getting into a higher rpm region of your fuel map which you = perhaps couldn't get to with the larger prop. If so? (and a big IF I = admit), then if it were too lean the engine would lose power. In any = case, a hearty pat on the back for handling a very challenging situation = with cool aplomb (well, hell nobody was with you to say otherwise {:>) Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 9:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Bad day at the airport On Sunday I decided to do a little "tweaking" on the ECU fuel mixtures = on my 13b powered SQ2000. I had the larger 3 bladed Performance prop = on, and just wasn't getting the rpm's I wanted, so I put the smaller = dia/less pitch prop on and took it to the end of the runway and once I = was lined up on the runway, advanced the throttle to wide open. RPM's = were only around 5100, but I have flown it that way before, so I decided = to go ahead and try to work with the mixture programming at 5000 feet. = Acceleration was normal, liftoff in less than 2000 feet, and started my = climb. At approximately 250 feet, the engine started failing rapidly. I = tried various throttle positions, with no improvement. Unable to = maintain altitude. I immediately started a left turn, hoping maybe the = engine would recover enough to just get me to 500 feet downwind so I = would have a chance of making the runway. No such luck. I was now = heading back toward the center of the airport at approximately 100 feet = and descending. I wanted to land on the center turn-off section in the = middle of the airport, but that would have me landing straight towards = several parked aircraft and the main hangar. Not the best option. = There is a newly paved area slightly to my left, where aircraft may be = tied down in the future, but it was empty for now. I was out of options = and altitude. I crossed the runway at less than 50 feet. I didn't want = to land going across the runway, because the grass and mud I would = encounter after rolling across the runway would probably flip the = aircraft over. I headed for the new aircraft tie-down area, and attacked = it at a 45 degree angle to get as much "runway" as possible. I held it = off until I was over the parallel taxiway, and landed on the parallel = taxiway (the short way, of course) and with heavy braking, began = skidding across the aircraft tie-down area. (See attached photos). I = knew I couldn't stop in that short a distance, but hopefully when I went = off the other end of the pavement, I would not be going as fast. The = nose was dipped down at an angle from all the heavy braking, so I had a = nice view of what was coming. Grass, mud and a ditch. The aircraft kept = slowing down, and as I ran out of pavement, I wasn't going all that = fast. I probably only went 10 feet past the end of the paved area into = the grass and came to a stop. Missed the ditch by almost 5 feet !!! No = problem...that was fun !!! Just don't care to do it again. I restarted = the engine and taxiied back to the hangar, pretending nothing had = happened. I don't know what to do at this point. I don't care to have = this much fun again anytime soon. I'm torn between a carburetor and a = Cessna. Paul Conner -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C50D5E.AE953C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul, as they say  - a good = landing is if you=20 wall away from it - an excellent landing is when the aircraft will fly = again=20 without repair and an Outstanding landing is all of the above but, you = don't=20 leave skid marks on the taxiway.  Certainly glad everything ended = as well=20 as it did - good thinking and decision making under a bundle of stress - = I know,=20  I have left skid marks for 300ft after aborting a take off, ended = up 12 ft=20 off in the grass.
 
Here is a wild guess at what could = have caused=20 your problem.  I would wager that you did not reprogram the map = after=20 putting on the smaller dia prop.  My aborted take off occurred = because I=20 had been tuning the ECU (not Tracy's EC2 - an aftermarket auto unit) = with a=20 Laptop - but, of course I could not tune the map for those rpms above = static=20 until I got airborne.  So on the ground,  I extrapolated for = the=20 higher rpms figuring to refine them in the air.  As soon as I = lifted off=20 and had gained approx 20-30 ft of altitude, the engine revved into the = part of=20 the rpm range that I had extrapolated the Map settings.  The engine = immediately dropped from 5000+ rpm to around 3500 rpm, recovered and = surged back=20 to 5000 then died back down to 3500.  Despite being airport and = 80MPH I=20 elected to abort on this 2200 ft runway.  Touched down firmly 300ft = from=20 the end (measure the tire tracks) got on the binders very hard (you know = what I=20 mean - glad I had the nose wheel) and left rubber (actually no skids - = no flat=20 spots of tires) just rubber digging into the tarmac from point of touch = down to=20 rolling off the grass.  I remember dodging between two end of = runway light=20 markers so I wouldn't ding my flaps.  Funny what you think of at = times like=20 that..Now, in my case if I had just had the time to reach over an play = with the=20 mixture control I might have found that full rich would have enabled = flight - or=20 if I had taken one more fraction of a second in making a decision I = truly could=20 have been in bottom of  a ravine at the end of the = runway.
 
But, the point of my tale is I suspect = that one=20 possible cause might be your engine getting into a higher rpm region of = your=20 fuel map which you perhaps couldn't get to with the larger prop.  = If so?=20 (and a big IF I admit), then if it were too lean the engine would lose=20 power.  In any case, a hearty pat on the back for handling a very=20 challenging situation with cool aplomb (well, hell nobody was with you = to say=20 otherwise {:>)
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul=20
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 = 9:09=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Bad day at = the=20 airport

On Sunday I decided to do a little = "tweaking" on=20 the ECU fuel mixtures on my 13b powered SQ2000.  I had the larger = 3=20 bladed Performance prop on, and just wasn't getting the rpm's I = wanted, so I=20 put the smaller dia/less pitch prop on and took it to the end of the = runway=20 and once I was lined up on the runway, advanced the throttle to wide = open.=20 RPM's were only around 5100, but I have flown it that way before, so I = decided=20 to go ahead and try to work with the mixture programming at 5000 = feet. =20 Acceleration was normal, liftoff in less than 2000 feet, and started = my climb.=20 At approximately 250 feet, the engine started failing rapidly. I tried = various=20 throttle positions, with no improvement. Unable to maintain altitude. = I=20 immediately started a left turn, hoping maybe the engine would recover = enough=20 to just get me to 500 feet downwind so I would have a chance of making = the=20 runway. No such luck.  I was now heading back toward the center = of the=20 airport at approximately 100 feet and descending.  I wanted to = land on=20 the center turn-off section in the middle of the airport, but that = would have=20 me landing straight towards several parked aircraft and the main = hangar. =20 Not the best option.  There is a newly paved area slightly to my = left,=20 where aircraft may be tied down in the future, but it was empty for = now. I was=20 out of options and altitude. I crossed the runway at less than 50 = feet. I=20 didn't want to land going across the runway, because the grass and mud = I would=20 encounter after rolling across the runway would probably flip the = aircraft=20 over. I headed for the new aircraft tie-down area, and attacked = it at a=20 45 degree angle to get as much "runway" as possible.  I held = it off=20 until I was over the parallel taxiway, and landed on the parallel = taxiway (the=20 short way, of course) and with heavy braking, began skidding across = the=20 aircraft tie-down area. (See attached photos).  I knew I couldn't = stop in=20 that short a distance, but hopefully when I went off the other end of = the=20 pavement, I would not be going as fast.  The nose was dipped down = at an=20 angle from all the heavy braking, so I had a nice view of what was = coming.=20 Grass, mud and a ditch.  The aircraft kept slowing down, and as I = ran out=20 of pavement, I wasn't going all that fast. I probably only went 10 = feet past=20 the end of the paved area into the grass and came to a stop.  = Missed the=20 ditch by almost 5 feet !!!  No problem...that was fun !!! Just = don't care=20 to do it again.  I restarted the engine and taxiied back to the = hangar,=20 pretending nothing had happened. I don't know what to do at this = point. =20 I don't care to have this much fun again anytime soon.  I'm torn = between=20 a carburetor and a Cessna.  Paul Conner

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Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
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