Return-Path: Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP id 619950 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:41:56 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.64; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from [209.214.45.165] by imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050124204118.VKVK1983.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[209.214.45.165]> for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:41:18 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.7.3]); Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:41:12 -0600 Message-ID: <019e01c50255$0a1e22b0$a52dd6d1@paul52u7f5qyav> From: "Paul" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery load test Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:41:11 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-41F55D681FDF=======" --=======AVGMAIL-41F55D681FDF======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_019B_01C50222.BF64B900" ------=_NextPart_000_019B_01C50222.BF64B900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jim....probably a good idea. Unfortunately, I kinda copied our = tractor and forklift starter systems and the +battery cable goes = straight to the starter solenoid, unfused. That is the only constant = power cable on the aircraft. I made sure to use Adel clamps all along = it's 32inch length to insure it could not come into contact with = anything that might cut into the wire and cause a short and or fire. A = master relay would probably have been a better choice. Thanks for the = info. Paul Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Maher=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery load test Everyone should already have a quick disconnect already built into = their electrical system. It is called the Master solenoid or contactor. I run my starter cable through the Master solenoid so that when the = Master is off the Starter cable is not Hot. This is not that uncommon as = Piper does the same thing. I looked at the wiring schematic for my Piper = Warrior when I was wiring my homebuilt and discovered this trick. If the = starter sticks simply turn off the Master switch. Problem solved. Jim Paul wrote: Hi, Mark....unfortunately, I am presently working as a heavy truck = mechanic (18 wheelers), and I have been on many a road call where the = starter was stuck engaged.On a few units, once I disconnected the = batteries (4 of them) the starter would be OK to use again. On two of = the trucks, I could not get to them in time, and it burned the wiring = harness so badly that the whole harness had to be replaced. The other = tractor burned to the ground. Melted all the tires, all windows gone, = all fiberglass hood and fender parts melted....not a pretty picture.=20 I have a quick disconnect on the negative terminal on my motor = home so that if the starter solenoid should hang up, I can simply open = the blade-style switch and disconnect the battery. Hopefully I will = never need it, but it's nice to know it's there just in case. I have = been looking at the various battery switches/quick disconnects at West = Marine, and have been considering one for my aircraft. Heck, it's = convenient jus to be able to quick-disconnect the battery when working = on the panel, fuel pumps, spark plugs/wires, etc. Just a thought. Paul = Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery load test Wendell, There is some benefit to using a starter relay in addition to the = starter solenoid. The argument is that this arrangement will keep the = fat wire going to the starter from being always hot. Also, I've heard = stories of starter solenoids sticking with no way to stop the starter = until it runs the battery dead. Not sure I buy that argument though. I = tied my alternator B+ wire to the battery terminal on the solenoid = (mounted on firewall) rather than running it all the way back to the = battery (in the tail). I also picked up on the same B+ terminal to = provide power to the Main Power Buss. This saved about 25' of heavy = gauge wire, offsetting the weight of the solenoid. =20 Mark S. =20 =20 =20 Refering to the battery going directly to the starter, most all = starters with built in solinoids are so wired. I remember having a = starter to hang on occasion and drain the battery or ruin the starter. = Is it practicle to use a relay in conjunction with the starter/solenoid = set up? Wendell -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: = 1/21/2005 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_019B_01C50222.BF64B900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Jim....probably a good idea. = Unfortunately, I=20 kinda copied our tractor and forklift starter systems and the +battery = cable=20 goes straight to the starter solenoid, unfused. That is the only = constant power=20 cable on the aircraft. I made sure to use Adel clamps all along it's = 32inch=20 length to insure it could not come into contact with anything that might = cut=20 into the wire and cause a short and or fire. A master relay would=20 probably have been a better choice.  Thanks for the = info. =20 Paul Conner
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 Maher
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 = 2:25=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Battery load=20 test

Everyone should already have a quick disconnect already built = into their=20 electrical system. It is called the Master solenoid or = contactor.
I run my starter cable through the Master solenoid so that when = the=20 Master is off the Starter cable is not Hot. This is not that uncommon = as Piper=20 does the same thing. I looked at the wiring schematic for my Piper = Warrior=20 when I was wiring my homebuilt and discovered this trick. If the = starter=20 sticks simply turn off the Master switch. Problem solved.
Jim

Paul <sqpilot@bellsouth.net> = wrote:
Hi, Mark....unfortunately, I am = presently=20 working as a heavy truck mechanic (18 wheelers), and I have been on = many a=20 road call where the starter was stuck engaged.On a few units, once I = disconnected the batteries (4 of them) the starter would be OK = to use=20 again.  On two of the trucks, I could not get to them in time, = and it=20 burned the wiring harness so badly that the whole harness had to be=20 replaced.  The other tractor burned to the ground. Melted all = the=20 tires, all windows gone, all fiberglass hood and fender parts = melted....not=20 a pretty picture. 
      I = have a quick=20 disconnect on the negative terminal on my motor home so that if the = starter=20 solenoid should hang up, I can simply open the blade-style switch = and=20 disconnect the battery. Hopefully I will never need it, but it's = nice to=20 know it's there just in case.  I have been looking at the = various=20 battery switches/quick disconnects at West Marine, and have been = considering=20 one for my aircraft.  Heck, it's convenient jus to be able to=20 quick-disconnect the battery when working on the panel, fuel pumps, = spark=20 plugs/wires, etc.  Just a thought.  Paul = Conner
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Mark R Steitle =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, January 24, = 2005 8:47=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Battery load=20 test

Wendell,

There = is some=20 benefit to using a starter relay in addition to the starter=20 solenoid.  The argument is that this arrangement will keep = the fat=20 wire going to the starter from being always hot.  Also, = I=92ve heard=20 stories of starter solenoids sticking with no way to stop the = starter=20 until it runs the battery dead.  Not sure I buy that argument = though.  I tied my alternator B+ wire to the battery terminal = on the=20 solenoid (mounted on firewall) rather than running it all the way = back to=20 the battery (in the tail).  I also picked up on the same B+ = terminal=20 to provide power to the Main Power Buss.  This saved about = 25=92 of=20 heavy gauge wire, offsetting the weight of the=20 solenoid.

 

Mark=20 S.

 =20   

 

 

Refering to the battery = going=20 directly to the starter,  most all starters with built in = solinoids=20 are so wired.  I remember having a starter to hang on = occasion and=20 drain the battery or ruin the starter.  Is it practicle to = use a=20 relay in conjunction with the starter/solenoid set=20 up?

Wendell

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - = Release Date:=20 1/21/2005
No virus found in this outgoing=20 message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus = Database:=20 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
>> Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive:=20 http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release = Date:=20 1/24/2005
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