Return-Path: Received: from web80804.mail.yahoo.com ([66.163.170.99] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with SMTP id 619924 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:25:43 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.163.170.99; envelope-from=deltaflyer@prodigy.net Message-ID: <20050124202511.10707.qmail@web80804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [199.231.49.128] by web80804.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:25:11 PST Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: James Maher Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery load test To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-160198444-1106598311=:10085" --0-160198444-1106598311=:10085 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Everyone should already have a quick disconnect already built into their electrical system. It is called the Master solenoid or contactor. I run my starter cable through the Master solenoid so that when the Master is off the Starter cable is not Hot. This is not that uncommon as Piper does the same thing. I looked at the wiring schematic for my Piper Warrior when I was wiring my homebuilt and discovered this trick. If the starter sticks simply turn off the Master switch. Problem solved. Jim Paul wrote: @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1}Hi, Mark....unfortunately, I am presently working as a heavy truck mechanic (18 wheelers), and I have been on many a road call where the starter was stuck engaged.On a few units, once I disconnected the batteries (4 of them) the starter would be OK to use again. On two of the trucks, I could not get to them in time, and it burned the wiring harness so badly that the whole harness had to be replaced. The other tractor burned to the ground. Melted all the tires, all windows gone, all fiberglass hood and fender parts melted....not a pretty picture. I have a quick disconnect on the negative terminal on my motor home so that if the starter solenoid should hang up, I can simply open the blade-style switch and disconnect the battery. Hopefully I will never need it, but it's nice to know it's there just in case. I have been looking at the various battery switches/quick disconnects at West Marine, and have been considering one for my aircraft. Heck, it's convenient jus to be able to quick-disconnect the battery when working on the panel, fuel pumps, spark plugs/wires, etc. Just a thought. Paul Conner ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark R Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery load test Wendell, There is some benefit to using a starter relay in addition to the starter solenoid. The argument is that this arrangement will keep the fat wire going to the starter from being always hot. Also, I’ve heard stories of starter solenoids sticking with no way to stop the starter until it runs the battery dead. Not sure I buy that argument though. I tied my alternator B+ wire to the battery terminal on the solenoid (mounted on firewall) rather than running it all the way back to the battery (in the tail). I also picked up on the same B+ terminal to provide power to the Main Power Buss. This saved about 25’ of heavy gauge wire, offsetting the weight of the solenoid. Mark S. Refering to the battery going directly to the starter, most all starters with built in solinoids are so wired. I remember having a starter to hang on occasion and drain the battery or ruin the starter. Is it practicle to use a relay in conjunction with the starter/solenoid set up? Wendell --------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html --0-160198444-1106598311=:10085 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Everyone should already have a quick disconnect already built into their electrical system. It is called the Master solenoid or contactor.
I run my starter cable through the Master solenoid so that when the Master is off the Starter cable is not Hot. This is not that uncommon as Piper does the same thing. I looked at the wiring schematic for my Piper Warrior when I was wiring my homebuilt and discovered this trick. If the starter sticks simply turn off the Master switch. Problem solved.
Jim

Paul <sqpilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hi, Mark....unfortunately, I am presently working as a heavy truck mechanic (18 wheelers), and I have been on many a road call where the starter was stuck engaged.On a few units, once I disconnected the batteries (4 of them) the starter would be OK to use again.  On two of the trucks, I could not get to them in time, and it burned the wiring harness so badly that the whole harness had to be replaced.  The other tractor burned to the ground. Melted all the tires, all windows gone, all fiberglass hood and fender parts melted....not a pretty picture. 
      I have a quick disconnect on the negative terminal on my motor home so that if the starter solenoid should hang up, I can simply open the blade-style switch and disconnect the battery. Hopefully I will never need it, but it's nice to know it's there just in case.  I have been looking at the various battery switches/quick disconnects at West Marine, and have been considering one for my aircraft.  Heck, it's convenient jus to be able to quick-disconnect the battery when working on the panel, fuel pumps, spark plugs/wires, etc.  Just a thought.  Paul Conner
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:47 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery load test

Wendell,

There is some benefit to using a starter relay in addition to the starter solenoid.  The argument is that this arrangement will keep the fat wire going to the starter from being always hot.  Also, I’ve heard stories of starter solenoids sticking with no way to stop the starter until it runs the battery dead.  Not sure I buy that argument though.  I tied my alternator B+ wire to the battery terminal on the solenoid (mounted on firewall) rather than running it all the way back to the battery (in the tail).  I also picked up on the same B+ terminal to provide power to the Main Power Buss.  This saved about 25’ of heavy gauge wire, offsetting the weight of the solenoid.

 

Mark S.

    

 

 

Refering to the battery going directly to the starter,  most all starters with built in solinoids are so wired.  I remember having a starter to hang on occasion and drain the battery or ruin the starter.  Is it practicle to use a relay in conjunction with the starter/solenoid set up?

Wendell

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