Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #15409
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Switching to Evans NPG+
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 07:36:11 -0800
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Switching to Evans NPG+

Marv, I agree completely with everything you said.  I fully plan to keep my pressure system in place and continue to monitor the pressure as a way to detect leaks.  The beauty of NPG is that if the system does loose pressure, it does not change the ability to cool.

Dave;

Adding my 2 cents worth; don’t overlook that it’s ability to cool is seriously less than water, or 50-50 w/g in the first place.  The specific heat is 40% less (I notice that is not in their table), so, as you know, for a given volume of flow it carries away 40% less heat.  Couple that with say a 10 times (depending on temperature) higher viscosity, which means lower flow rate, and lower thermal conductivity; you have seriously changed the temperature gradients and internal surface temps in the engine.  I don’t know that it would damage the engine, but there is a risk.  On the face of it, these things are serious disadvantages, and suggest to me that it is not likely the best path to a solution.  And I haven’t even mentioned the higher pumping power requirements, but that is a second order effect.

We have been all over this stuff in the past; and, personally, I wouldn’t do it; at least not with a stock coolant pump.  Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try it; we will all get some more information.  Don’t they still tell you that you should change the coolant pump?  They used to sell the pumps as well.

And don’t overlook that Evans is promoting sales; which includes hype, and overlooks potential problems. Design the cooling system around the use of NPG, and it should be fine. But it is difficult, at least for me, to see how it is going to solve a problem cooling system.

Whether or not it “solves” problems in your cooling system depends on where the problem is, and if it solves one it may cause others.  Again, not that you shouldn’t try it; just that as a friend I wasn’t comfortable in not voicing my concerns.

Al

 



You mention coolant vapor around hot spots.  Evans touts its ability to resist that vapor film as one of its strongest points, and it makes sense.  Even unpressurized 370 + degree boiling point is worlds better than the 265*F boiling point of pressurized 50/50.  So I do believe that NPG will be better at preventing that vapor film than 50/50 even pressurized up into the 25psi range.

I'm not saying that this stuff is magic.  And I don't believe it can compensate for an inadequate cooling system (like pure water might), but it does offer some advantages that I am starting to appreciate.

From the Evans Web site, here is some technical stuff:

COMPARISON OF COOLANT PARAMETERS

 

 

Water

50/50 EGW

Evans NPG

Evans NPG+

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boiling Point

 

121° C (250° F)
(1 atm plus 15 psig)

129° C (264° F)
(1 atm plus 15 psig)

187° C (369° F)
(1 atm plus 0 psig)

191° C (375° F)
(1 atm plus 0 psig)


Viscosity

 

 

 

 

 

    10° C (50° F)

cp

1.2

5.0

115

58

    80° C (176° F)

cp

.37

1.0

4.5

3.7

   100° C (212° F)

cp

.28

0.7

2.8

2.3

 


Density

 

 

 

 

 

    20° C (68° F)

spec grav

1.00

1.066

1.038

1.091

    20° C (68° F)

lbs/gal

8.32

8.87

8.64

9.08


Specific Heat

 

 

 

 

 

    80° C (176° F)

Btu/lb/°F

1.00

0.81

0.68

0.64

   100° C (212° F)

Btu/lb/°F

1.01

0.82

0.71

0.66


Heat of Vaporization

cal/mole

9,700

9,800

12,500

12,050


Vapor Pressure

 

 

 

 

 

    80° C (176° F)

mm Hg

360

270

8

6

    80° C (176° F)

kPa

475

360

11

8


Surface Tension

 

 

 

 

 

    25° C (77° F)

dyn/cm

72

56

36

44


 

 

 


>
> Try and remember that the rules for what happens inside an engine
> at sea level
> are different than what goes on at 15,000 feet.  While the NPG+
> may not boil
> until 396*F at sea level, I'm certain that it's a different beast
> at altitude.
>  The guy who engineered the Eagle was livid when we told him that Evans
> recommended a pressureless system... part of the reason for the
> pressure is to
> keep the coolant pressed firmly against the metal surfaces it's trying to
> cool.  Even if you have a high boiling point, when the metal temperatures
> exceed it the boiling will happen and without the pressure to
> insure coolant
> contact, pretty soon everything is surrounded by a cloud of PG
> steam (well,
> maybe not a "cloud", but all the hotspots will be working
> overtime keeping the
> coolant boiling next to them).  Those metal temps quickly build,
> the areas
> where the coolant has turned to vapor grow, and the problem feeds
> on itself
> until the system goes completely out of control.  At this point your
> pressureless system vents itself, throwing out what's left of the
> coolant and
> the engine is toast.  The point here is that there are more
> reasons for having
> a pressurized system in an airplane than meets the eye.
>
> One more thing... with a pressurized system you can alarm it for a low
> pressure situation.  If something goes wrong with the coolant
> system (like you
> spring a leak) the pressure will likely go down before you see a rise in
> temps.  If the system is setup to run at 20psi and you alarm it
> at 15, when
> you see that master warning you know that pretty soon you're
> probably going to
> overheat.  Just another chance to get a jump on things that you pass up
> without pressure.
>
>   <marv>
>  
>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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