Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #15356
From: Leon <peon@pacific.net.au>
Subject: For Jerry: Inlet runners etc was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: For Al EWPs & Sump Heat Exchangers
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:15:05 +1100
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Hi Jerry,
 
Looks like you have copped the same treatment that I copped,  and still continue to cop.  HIM (His Imperious Majesty) never misses an opportunity to put someone down if they are right and he is wrong.  He's been bad-mouthing me for the past three years.
 
Unfortunately,  the majority on the ACRE mailing list believe whatever HIM  says is true,  including all the the libel and slander.  And there is no right of reply or redress of grievances. 
 
As John Slade rightly says,  those of us who know what it's all about might start taking notice of him when he actually gets a plane in the air,  or even an engine running.  But,  what about all the poor people who are being willingly misled???   In the meantime I suppose,  it's a case of  "Them's wot can ... DO,  them's wot carn't ... prognosticate!"
 
As for the size of any PP runner,  the ONLY way ANYONE will know is to DO it,  build the engine,  and dyno the sucker.  From my perspective of a car racer,  it's not only size,  but actual port timing and shape that makes a difference.  This is all RPM dependent.  The higher the RPM,  the more overlap and the bigger the ports and runners that can be accomodated. 
 
As a racer (as opposed to an aviator),  we are always trying to get MAXIMUM power,  which means BIG runners,  and LOTS of ARE PEE EMMS.  Current PP thoughts are 52mm ports being fed by 60 mm throttle bodies with a tapered runner. Great for 10,000 -11,000 RPM,  But this just wouldn't work in an aircraft.  The engine wouldn't even get on the pipe until around 5,500.  A two piece,  centre bearing crank is mandatory. 
 
Obviously,  the corollary is true.  While not being a fan of PPs for aircraft use,  I can only agree with you.  At the RPM we are using in aircraft,  the overlap needs to be reduced (port size,  shape,  and placement on the trochoid),  and the runner sizes and lengths need to be commensurate with the gas speed required,  as well as any back pressure caused by mufflers.  In the end,  this can only be a matter of  applying a bit of intelligent theory and doing some educated surmising,  guided by whatever people have done in the past, and then followed by trial and error and dyno time.
 
For instance.  I'm developing a four runner manifold for the race car.  The current one in the pix is steel (for ease of fabrication),  and will be replaced by an all alloy manifold once the development is finished.  So far,  we have picked up an extra 25 BHP throughout the RPM range,  and something like 35-40 BHP at the top end.
 
I eventually want to have computer controlled adjustable length runners. Easily done with a stepper motor and a worm shaft.  Now I already have a ROUGH idea about lengths,  based on past expereince,  but until I actually put the car on the dyno,  I really didn't know EXACTLY what length would work  at what RPM with the current style of bridgeporting I'm using,  and the actual mufflers and exhaust system on the vehicle.
 
So,  I've made the trumpets manually adjustable (crude by effective),  and have done some dyno tuning and track time to see what lengths  work at what RPM.  I am now at that point in time where I can get my machinist to make an adjustable trumpet mechanism of the correct stroke.  I know HIM has been talking about it,  but I'm actually doing something practical about it!!  Just do likewise Jerry.  Don't let the nay sayers get you down.  In the end,  you will know who's right,  because the dyno is the final arbiter.
 
Cheers,
 
Leon
 


I have come to realize that what Paul has to say may not only not be true but in fact can be intentionally false. I have also experienced a pile of profane, invective laden e-mail attacking me and those who supported me concerning the p ports. Most of these were sent privately. I have also had my comments suppressed so that in no way could I present my side in a friendly debate about a technical matter.

Why so much strong emotion about whether a p-port should be a little larger or smaller is a question that I cannot answer. At a certain point Paul seemed to cross a line where fairness was no longer required. For sure, not accepting his reasoning, mathematical or otherwise, can trigger rage.

Canceling my subscription to ACRE was not a decision easily reached, but in the end, there was no choice at all. That was the way it had to be. I do miss much of the theoretical discussion on ACRE. I found it educational and challenging. Jerry

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