Return-Path: Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 572938 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:20:44 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.202.55; envelope-from=kenpowell@comcast.net Received: from 204.127.205.145 ([204.127.205.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004121911201401100auceoe>; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:20:14 +0000 Received: from [166.102.160.133] by 204.127.205.145; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:20:13 +0000 From: kenpowell@comcast.net To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: Engine damage thoughts Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:20:13 +0000 Message-Id: <121920041120.10373.41C563EB000B2AEB00002885220076230204040A99019F020A05@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 22 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VucG93ZWxsQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10373_1103455213_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10373_1103455213_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A piston engine can have a mild seizure and still run pretty well; well enough to not even realize that there was a seizure in fact. I agree with Rusty and doubt that the rotors and side housings were damaged under the light load that Rusty describes. However, there is also the other possibility that there was damage. Yes, those are the two possibilities - there either was or was not damage. There is only one way to know for sure. It only takes a weekend to pull ther motor apart. Then you know for sure and will have confidence in the motor. These things are as simple as a two-stroke. As I said earlier, I agree with Ken W. that the engine needs to come apart. Rusty, don't be indimidated by what the unknowledgeable say about taking a wankel apart; it really is easy (but will take all weekend for the amateur). Several of the guys here have taken their first rotary apart while commenting on the progress to the list. Everyone has come back saying how easy it is. Ken Powell -------------- Original message -------------- Hi Rusty; Given the fact that you're certain there was no seizure, I wouldn't hesitate to run it. I would still attempt to have an oil analysis done if possible. You say that you have no oil from the filter, but did you drain the pan? Even though most of the oil is missing from the pan, there should still be enough below the pick-up tube to drain. As the oil returns to the pan directly from the engine before going to the filter, I would expect that any possible metal debris would be in the bottom of the pan. Even if you did drain the oil, removal of the pan would still allow inspection for any heavy pieces that may not have drained. However if you have any missing pieces that are big enough to be found in this manner, then you would have likely heard that destruction as it happened. Do a proper compression check, oil check, put in a Mazda cooler, indulge in some fibreglass ductwork, then fire 'er up. Run a couple of hours on the ground, have oil checked again, then circle that airport. I'm betting that within a month you'll have it back in the air and you'll be tinkering with something else on it, trying for that 3000fpm climb. Todd Bartrim (thinking about how data logging would answer so many of Rusty's questions)(and ours :-) RV9Endurance 13B Turbo Rotary C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do." --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10373_1103455213_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
A piston engine can have a mild seizure and still run pretty well; well enough to not even realize that there was a seizure in fact.  I agree with Rusty and doubt that the rotors and side housings were damaged under the light load that Rusty describes.  However, there is also the other possibility  that there was damage.  Yes, those are the two possibilities - there either was or was not damage.  There is only one way to know for sure.  It only takes a weekend to pull ther motor apart.  Then you know for sure and will have confidence in the motor.  These things are as simple as a two-stroke.  As I said earlier, I agree with Ken W. that the engine needs to come apart.  Rusty, don't be indimidated by what the unknowledgeable say about taking a wankel apart; it really is easy (but will take all weekend for the amateur).  Several of the guys here have taken their first rotary apart while commenting on the progress to the list.  Everyone has come back saying how easy it is.
Ken Powell
 
-------------- Original message --------------
Hi Rusty;
    Given the fact that you're certain there was no seizure, I wouldn't hesitate to run it. I would still attempt to have an oil analysis done if possible. You say that you have no oil from the filter, but did you drain the pan? Even though most of the oil is missing from the pan, there should still be enough below the pick-up tube to drain. As the oil returns to the pan directly from the engine before going to the filter, I would expect that any possible metal debris would be in the bottom of the pan. Even if you did drain the oil, removal of the pan would still allow inspection for any heavy pieces that may not have drained. However if you have any missing pieces that are big enough to be found in this manner, then you would have likely heard that destruction as it happened.
    Do a proper compression check, oil check, put in a Mazda cooler, indulge in some fibreglass ductwork, then fire 'er up. Run a couple of hours on the ground, have oil checked again, then circle that airport. I'm betting that within a month you'll have it back in the air and you'll be tinkering with something else on it, trying for that 3000fpm climb.
 
Todd Bartrim        (thinking about how data logging would answer so many of Rusty's questions)(and ours :-)
 
RV9Endurance
13B Turbo Rotary
C-FSTB
 
             "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do."
   
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