Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.169.58] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 566652 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:10:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.169.58; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:10:01 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.97.149 by BAY3-DAV28.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 04:09:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.97.149] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RV-3 down Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:06:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01C4E168.5DCDE700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0009.2900 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:06:23 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2004 04:10:01.0162 (UTC) FILETIME=[C816AAA0:01C4E192] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C4E168.5DCDE700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [FlyRotary] RV-3 downPioneers get the arrows as usual. Glad it = ended with no damage to you or your -3. Of course this had to happen as = I was getting ready to weld oil fittings on an evaporator core for my -8 = : ) Tracy (waiting anxiously to hear the post mortem on the oil cooler) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken Welter=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:15 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV-3 down Wow glad to here you made it ok, I know how it feels, done it did = it been there. Loss of oil will expand the over heat the rotors and seize them to = the side housings, usually it will seize the rear one first and if your = lucky you may be able to save the front rotor and front housing but the = center and rear one will be gone for sure, amazingly loss of oil usually = will not cause any bearing damage. Ken Greetings all, It was a beautiful day to fly, so I finally made it over to see = Paul's plastic fantastic in Mobile. The engine was running great, the = oil temps were perfect, and I was seeing 235 mph groundspeed as I headed = home. I was about 25 miles from my home airport, and started descending = from 7500 ft. At about 6000 feet, I started smelling something that = smelled like plastic, or insulation burning, smoke started coming in = through the vent, and oil covered the canopy. Not good. =20 My primary fear was fire, and my planned course of action was to get = on the ground as soon as possible, so I pushed the nose over, and headed = for a Navy helicopter field ahead. I did the 121.5 mayday call, = squawked 7700, and talked to the controller. He asked if I was going to = land at the Spencer Field, or if I could make another airport. The = smoke was subsiding, and the engine was still turning, and I thought = about trying for another field, but when I tried to throttle up, the = prop stopped cold. Needless to say, I confirmed that I was landing at = Spencer. Fortunately, I had the field made easily, and had to use full = flaps and a slip to make the part of the field I was aiming at. =20 This field is a helicopter training field, and it has 4 runways that = form a square, with each runway being maybe 1000-1500 feet long. Lots = of grass exists outside of this square. I wanted to head for one of the = runways, but it was full of RC model guys. I went instead for the = parallel runway on the other side of the field. Still, they were mighty = shocked when I came gliding in :-) I landed a little hot, about a third = of the way down the runway, and ended up running about 200 ft off into = the grass before coming to a stop. Within a minute, there were people from the RC club at the plane, = and I could already hear the fire trucks that had been summoned by = Pensacola approach. Within just a couple minutes, civilian rescue folks = were there, followed shortly afterward by military police, and then by = the CO of Whiting NAS. I talked to the Pensacola controller, and got a = call from the Birmingham FSDO. Basically, everyone just wanted to know = that I was OK. I filled out a few papers for the Navy Police, and I owe = the FSDO a statement via fax, but that should be the extent of the = paperwork. The CO of Whiting NAS (who controls all the outlying fields) = gave me permission to either repair the plane, and fly it out, or = disassemble it, and haul it away. =20 The plane was not damaged in the landing, so no problem there. I = pulled the top cowl off before it got dark, and just can't see the = problem, probably because the oil cooler (evap core) is hard to see = without removing the bottom cowl. There's a puddle of oil in the oil = cooler scoop, and oil covering the exhaust, and all the bottom of the = cowling. I can't prove it yet, but I fully expect to find the evap core = split open just like the last one did. Let's just say I won't be using = one of those for oil again. =20 The EM-2 was flashing it's ass off, and in the middle of trying to = get the plane on the ground, I never even looked at the screen. My = initial assumption is that I blew out all the oil, but I won't know = until I check the oil level. I don't recall the low oil light coming = on, but that doesn't mean it wasn't on. The engine is not seized now, = but it does feel low on compression. Once the engine quit, the prop did = not turn at all for the duration of the glide. =20 The plan for tomorrow is to remove the wings, with the help of my = good RV-8 buddy, and haul the plane back to the hanger. At this point, = I don't know quite what I'll do with it from there. My wife was = slightly upset by this, but I think she'll get over it. I also have the = Slingshot at home already, AND I'm going to have to leave the hanger in = a month or so when they rebuild it from the hurricane. Seems like a = logistical nightmare. I don't intend to abandon the rotary, but I might = re-work the Slingshot first (with the 912S), so I can get something = flying. I'd follow that with a rebuild of the RV-3 engine, and a real = oil cooler. Once I do that, maybe I'll be ready to tackle the single = rotor for the Slingshot, or maybe not :-) Cheers, Rusty (I still smell burning oil, 5 hours later...) =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C4E168.5DCDE700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [FlyRotary] RV-3 down
Pioneers get the arrows as usual.   Glad it ended with no = damage=20 to you or your -3.  Of course this had to happen as I was getting = ready to=20 weld oil fittings on an evaporator core for my -8  : )
 
Tracy  (waiting anxiously to hear the post mortem on the oil=20 cooler)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken=20 Welter
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 = 1:15=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV-3 = down

   Wow glad to here you made it = ok, I know=20 how it feels, done it did it been there.
 Loss of oil will expand the over heat = the=20 rotors and seize them to the side housings, usually it will seize the = rear one=20 first and if your lucky you may be able to save the front rotor and = front=20 housing but the center and rear one will be gone for sure, amazingly = loss of=20 oil usually will not cause any bearing damage.
 Ken




Greetings=20 all,
 
It was a = beautiful day to=20 fly, so I finally made it over to see Paul's plastic fantastic in=20 Mobile.  The engine was running great, the oil temps were = perfect, and=20 I was seeing 235 mph groundspeed as I headed home.  I was about = 25=20 miles from my home airport, and started descending from 7500 = ft.  At=20 about 6000 feet, I started smelling something that smelled like = plastic, or=20 insulation burning, smoke started coming in through the vent, = and oil=20 covered the canopy.  Not = good.  
 
My primary fear = was fire,=20 and my planned course of action was to get on = the ground as=20 soon as possible, so I pushed the nose over, and headed for a=20 Navy helicopter field ahead.  I did the 121.5 mayday = call,=20 squawked 7700, and talked to the controller.  He asked if I was = going=20 to land at the Spencer Field, or if I could make another=20 airport.  The smoke was subsiding, and the engine was still = turning,=20 and I thought about trying for another field, but when I tried to = throttle=20 up, the prop stopped cold.  Needless to say, I confirmed = that I=20 was landing at Spencer.  Fortunately, I had the field made = easily, and=20 had to use full flaps and a slip to make the part of the field I was = aiming=20 at.  
 
This field is a = helicopter training field, and it has 4 runways that form a = square,=20 with each runway being maybe 1000-1500 feet long.  Lots of = grass exists=20 outside of this square.  I wanted to head for one of the = runways, but=20 it was full of RC model guys.  I went instead for the = parallel=20 runway on the other side of the field.  Still, they were mighty = shocked=20 when I came gliding in :-)  I landed a little hot, about a = third=20 of the way down the runway, and ended up running about 200 ft off = into the=20 grass before coming to a stop.
 
Within a = minute, there were=20 people from the RC club at the plane, and I could already hear the = fire=20 trucks that had been summoned by Pensacola approach.  = Within just=20 a couple minutes, civilian rescue folks were there, followed = shortly=20 afterward by military police, and then by the CO of=20 Whiting NAS.  I talked to the Pensacola controller, and = got a call=20 from the Birmingham FSDO.  Basically, everyone just wanted to = know that=20 I was OK.  I filled out a few papers for the Navy Police, and I = owe the=20 FSDO a statement via fax, but that should be the extent of the=20 paperwork.  The CO of Whiting NAS (who controls = all the=20 outlying fields) gave me permission to either repair the plane, and = fly it=20 out, or disassemble it, and haul it = away.  
 
The plane was = not damaged=20 in the landing, so no problem there.  I pulled the top cowl off = before=20 it got dark, and just can't see the problem, probably because the = oil cooler=20 (evap core) is hard to see without removing the bottom=20 cowl.   There's a puddle of oil in the oil = cooler scoop,=20 and oil covering the exhaust, and all the bottom of the = cowling. =20 I can't prove it yet, but I fully expect to find the evap core split = open=20 just like the last one did.  Let's just say I won't = be using=20 one of those for oil again.  
 
The EM-2 was = flashing it's=20 ass off, and in the middle of trying to get the plane on the = ground, I=20 never even looked at the screen.  My initial assumption is = that I=20 blew out all the oil, but I won't know until I check the oil = level.  I=20 don't recall the low oil light coming on, but that doesn't mean it = wasn't=20 on.  The engine is not seized now, but it does feel low on=20 compression.  Once the engine quit, the prop did=20 not  turn at all for the duration of=20 the glide.    
 
The plan for = tomorrow is to=20 remove the wings, with the help of my good RV-8 buddy, and haul = the=20 plane back to the hanger.  At this point, I don't = know quite what=20 I'll do with it from there.  My wife was slightly upset by = this, but I=20 think she'll get over it.  I also have the Slingshot at = home=20 already, AND I'm going to have to leave the hanger in a month = or so=20 when they rebuild it from the hurricane.  Seems like a = logistical=20 nightmare.  I don't intend to abandon the rotary, but I might = re-work=20 the Slingshot first (with the 912S), so I can get something = flying. =20 I'd follow that with a rebuild of the RV-3 engine, and a real = oil=20 cooler.  Once I do that, maybe I'll be ready to tackle the = single rotor=20 for the Slingshot, or maybe not :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty (I still = smell=20 burning oil, 5 hours later...)  

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