Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 565245 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:23:00 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-069-132-109-019.carolina.rr.com [69.132.109.19]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iBDCMfKk008366 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:22:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002e01c4e10e$7689a360$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] RV-3 down Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:22:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C4E0E4.8D6E7C10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C4E0E4.8D6E7C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageGreat to hear you are OK, Rusty. Engine out glides do have a way = of using up seat cushions {:>) Fire in the air has to be one of the greatest fears of aviators (it is = mine). I know what you mean about the smell of hot/burning oil, really = gets your attention. Good airmanship and judgement on all accounts - bet if the engine had = been running those RC fellows would have just thought the RV-3 was a = bigger model. Hope you find no damage to your engine, if so, it could be limited to = the bearings and perhaps side seals. It does sound as if the oil cooler = evaporator core is the likely culprit. May be one reason why the stock = Mazda oil cooler core is build like a tank. =20 Again, glad you make it down safely. Ed Anderson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 9:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] RV-3 down Greetings all,=20 It was a beautiful day to fly, so I finally made it over to see Paul's = plastic fantastic in Mobile. The engine was running great, the oil = temps were perfect, and I was seeing 235 mph groundspeed as I headed = home. I was about 25 miles from my home airport, and started descending = from 7500 ft. At about 6000 feet, I started smelling something that = smelled like plastic, or insulation burning, smoke started coming in = through the vent, and oil covered the canopy. Not good. =20 My primary fear was fire, and my planned course of action was to get = on the ground as soon as possible, so I pushed the nose over, and headed = for a Navy helicopter field ahead. I did the 121.5 mayday call, = squawked 7700, and talked to the controller. He asked if I was going to = land at the Spencer Field, or if I could make another airport. The = smoke was subsiding, and the engine was still turning, and I thought = about trying for another field, but when I tried to throttle up, the = prop stopped cold. Needless to say, I confirmed that I was landing at = Spencer. Fortunately, I had the field made easily, and had to use full = flaps and a slip to make the part of the field I was aiming at. =20 This field is a helicopter training field, and it has 4 runways that = form a square, with each runway being maybe 1000-1500 feet long. Lots = of grass exists outside of this square. I wanted to head for one of the = runways, but it was full of RC model guys. I went instead for the = parallel runway on the other side of the field. Still, they were mighty = shocked when I came gliding in :-) I landed a little hot, about a third = of the way down the runway, and ended up running about 200 ft off into = the grass before coming to a stop. Within a minute, there were people from the RC club at the plane, and = I could already hear the fire trucks that had been summoned by Pensacola = approach. Within just a couple minutes, civilian rescue folks were = there, followed shortly afterward by military police, and then by the CO = of Whiting NAS. I talked to the Pensacola controller, and got a call = from the Birmingham FSDO. Basically, everyone just wanted to know that = I was OK. I filled out a few papers for the Navy Police, and I owe the = FSDO a statement via fax, but that should be the extent of the = paperwork. The CO of Whiting NAS (who controls all the outlying fields) = gave me permission to either repair the plane, and fly it out, or = disassemble it, and haul it away. =20 The plane was not damaged in the landing, so no problem there. I = pulled the top cowl off before it got dark, and just can't see the = problem, probably because the oil cooler (evap core) is hard to see = without removing the bottom cowl. There's a puddle of oil in the oil = cooler scoop, and oil covering the exhaust, and all the bottom of the = cowling. I can't prove it yet, but I fully expect to find the evap core = split open just like the last one did. Let's just say I won't be using = one of those for oil again. =20 The EM-2 was flashing it's ass off, and in the middle of trying to get = the plane on the ground, I never even looked at the screen. My initial = assumption is that I blew out all the oil, but I won't know until I = check the oil level. I don't recall the low oil light coming on, but = that doesn't mean it wasn't on. The engine is not seized now, but it = does feel low on compression. Once the engine quit, the prop did not = turn at all for the duration of the glide. =20 The plan for tomorrow is to remove the wings, with the help of my good = RV-8 buddy, and haul the plane back to the hanger. At this point, I = don't know quite what I'll do with it from there. My wife was slightly = upset by this, but I think she'll get over it. I also have the = Slingshot at home already, AND I'm going to have to leave the hanger in = a month or so when they rebuild it from the hurricane. Seems like a = logistical nightmare. I don't intend to abandon the rotary, but I might = re-work the Slingshot first (with the 912S), so I can get something = flying. I'd follow that with a rebuild of the RV-3 engine, and a real = oil cooler. Once I do that, maybe I'll be ready to tackle the single = rotor for the Slingshot, or maybe not :-) Cheers, Rusty (I still smell burning oil, 5 hours later...) ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C4E0E4.8D6E7C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Great to hear you are OK, Rusty.  = Engine out=20 glides do have a way of using up seat cushions {:>)
 
Fire in the air has to be one of the = greatest fears=20 of aviators (it is mine).  I know what you mean about the smell of=20 hot/burning oil, really gets your attention.
 
Good airmanship and judgement on all = accounts - bet=20 if the engine had been running those RC fellows would have just thought = the RV-3=20 was a bigger model.
 
Hope you find no damage to your engine, = if so,=20  it could be limited to the bearings and perhaps side = seals. It does=20 sound as if the oil cooler evaporator core is the likely culprit.  = May be=20 one reason why the stock Mazda oil cooler core is build like a = tank. =20
 
Again, glad you make it down safely.
 
Ed Anderson
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 = 9:25=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] RV-3 = down

Greetings = all,=20
 
It was a = beautiful day to=20 fly, so I finally made it over to see Paul's plastic fantastic in=20 Mobile.  The engine was running great, the oil temps were = perfect, and I=20 was seeing 235 mph groundspeed as I headed home.  I was about 25 = miles=20 from my home airport, and started descending from 7500 ft.  At = about 6000=20 feet, I started smelling something that smelled like plastic, or = insulation=20 burning, smoke started coming in through the vent, and oil = covered the=20 canopy.  Not good.  
 
My primary = fear was fire,=20 and my planned course of action was to get on = the ground as=20 soon as possible, so I pushed the nose over, and headed for a=20 Navy helicopter field ahead.  I did the 121.5 mayday = call,=20 squawked 7700, and talked to the controller.  He asked if I was = going to=20 land at the Spencer Field, or if I could make another = airport. =20 The smoke was subsiding, and the engine was still turning, and I = thought about=20 trying for another field, but when I tried to throttle up, = the prop=20 stopped cold.  Needless to say, I confirmed that I was landing at = Spencer.  Fortunately, I had the field made easily, and had to = use full=20 flaps and a slip to make the part of the field I was aiming=20 at.  
 
This field is = a=20 helicopter training field, and it has 4 runways that form a = square, with=20 each runway being maybe 1000-1500 feet long.  Lots of grass = exists=20 outside of this square.  I wanted to head for one of the runways, = but it=20 was full of RC model guys.  I went instead for the parallel = runway=20 on the other side of the field.  Still, they were mighty shocked = when I=20 came gliding in :-)  I landed a little hot, about a third of = the way=20 down the runway, and ended up running about 200 ft off into the grass = before=20 coming to a stop.
 
Within a = minute, there=20 were people from the RC club at the plane, and I could already hear = the fire=20 trucks that had been summoned by Pensacola approach.  Within = just a=20 couple minutes, civilian rescue folks were there, followed = shortly=20 afterward by military police, and then by the CO of=20 Whiting NAS.  I talked to the Pensacola controller, and got = a call=20 from the Birmingham FSDO.  Basically, everyone just wanted to = know that I=20 was OK.  I filled out a few papers for the Navy Police, and I owe = the=20 FSDO a statement via fax, but that should be the extent of the=20 paperwork.  The CO of Whiting NAS (who controls = all the=20 outlying fields) gave me permission to either repair the plane, and = fly it=20 out, or disassemble it, and haul it = away.  
 
The plane was = not damaged=20 in the landing, so no problem there.  I pulled the top cowl off = before it=20 got dark, and just can't see the problem, probably because the oil = cooler=20 (evap core) is hard to see without removing the bottom=20 cowl.   There's a puddle of oil in the oil cooler = scoop,=20 and oil covering the exhaust, and all the bottom of the = cowling.  I=20 can't prove it yet, but I fully expect to find the evap core split = open just=20 like the last one did.  Let's just say I won't be using = one of=20 those for oil again.  
 
The EM-2 was = flashing=20 it's ass off, and in the middle of trying to get the plane on the = ground,=20 I never even looked at the screen.  My initial assumption is = that I=20 blew out all the oil, but I won't know until I check the oil = level.  I=20 don't recall the low oil light coming on, but that doesn't mean it = wasn't=20 on.  The engine is not seized now, but it does feel low on=20 compression.  Once the engine quit, the prop did = not  turn=20 at all for the duration of=20 the glide.    
 
The plan for = tomorrow is=20 to remove the wings, with the help of my good RV-8 buddy, and = haul the=20 plane back to the hanger.  At this point, I don't know quite = what=20 I'll do with it from there.  My wife was slightly upset by this, = but I=20 think she'll get over it.  I also have the Slingshot at home = already, AND I'm going to have to leave the hanger in a month or = so when=20 they rebuild it from the hurricane.  Seems like a logistical=20 nightmare.  I don't intend to abandon the rotary, but I might = re-work the=20 Slingshot first (with the 912S), so I can get something flying.  = I'd=20 follow that with a rebuild of the RV-3 engine, and a real oil=20 cooler.  Once I do that, maybe I'll be ready to tackle the single = rotor=20 for the Slingshot, or maybe not :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty (I = still smell=20 burning oil, 5 hours later...)  =20
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