Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 564194 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:57:49 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-069-132-109-019.carolina.rr.com [69.132.109.19]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iBCCvWCi020610 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:57:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <012201c4e04a$29087b80$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: DAR visit? Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:57:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011F_01C4E020.40006700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01C4E020.40006700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageCongratulations, Paul. A first flight to remember as most are. = Good to see sound decisions and judgement exercised when faced with = problems. =20 4400 rpm is a tad on the low side for the engine to produce good power. = My calculations indicate that if you were at the best power A/F setting = you were producing approx 138 HP. Not familiar with the microtech ECU, however, its been my experience = that if you are overly lean, the engine will surge. Rpm will increase = up into the "lean" region where it will be unable to produce power to = sustain that rpm upon which rpm will decrease until it gets down into a = "richer" region of operation. There it will have the power to produce = power and once again the rpm will start to increase, repeat, repeat, = etc. My engine bogs (depending on exactly what you mean by that) when there = is too much fuel. So your diagnose may be correct - rather than overly = lean it could be overly rich. But I have found the rotary can run = considerably overly rich before bogging. Just wanted convey these thoughts to you as you trouble shoot. Sounds = like you have your temps OK, but remember you were probably not = producing what you would like in terms of power. Temps will go up as = power does. Again, its great having you in the air, welcome to the club. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 6:22 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: DAR visit? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: DAR visit? Hi, Rusty....yep....airworthiness certificate in hand. =20 Congrats! =20 Not looking like the greatest choice of wind at your airport today. = I just checked the wx for the area, and find a 15kt gusting to 22kt, = which is almost a direct crosswind from the left. Should ease up this = afternoon, and be much better tomorrow. With that kind of left = crosswind, coupled with my ample left torque, I'd never be able to take = off :-) Cheers, Rusty (more bite than bark)=20 You're correct, Rusty....the winds were a direct crosswind 20 knots, = gusting higher (windsock standing straight out). At approximately 3:30 = P.M. my SQ2000 slipped the surly bounds of Earth....made a couple = circuits around the airport and had an uneventful (yawn) landing. The = precarious part was the take-off and climbout. I am not getting enough = power. From 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, engine accelerates smoothly and plenty = of power. As soon as I try to go above 1/2 throttle, the engine begins = to bog down. Advancing the throttle more only made it bog down even = more. On takeoff roll, I was only able to get 4400 rpm's at = approximately 1/2 throttle. Acceleration felt OK, and the nosewheel = lifted at around 70 knots. Mains lifted off shortly afterward, but it = just didn't want to climb. (Flew fine in ground effect, of course). = Unfortunately, I had reached the point of no return (short runway) and = past the accelerate/stop point, so I was committed. Found a "V" in the = treeline and headed for that. Made it...(whew)....continued slow climb = to 2000 feet, made a couple of circuits around the airport and had a = smooth landing (considering the strong, gusty crosswinds). Down and = stopped by mid field. =20 I had a few "bugs" to work out, like tightening the tension on = the nosewheel, so after 3 trips to the runway and back to the hangar, by = the time I got to the runway the fourth time, water temperatures were up = to 190 degrees. Fortunately, on climbout they started dropping, and by = the time I was downwind, they were stable at 170. I am pleased that the = temperature decreased in the climb.=20 I have to work on the power problem ASAP. I'm thinking it is = mixture related. I had programed the MicroTech ECU to be 10 percent = leaner (for all throttle settings), and perhaps that was a mistake. If = I remember correctly, you need sufficient air and sufficient fuel to = make power. Because the butterfly in the throttlebody continues opening = past 1/2 throttle, I'm reaonably certain that I am getting more air past = 1/2 throttle. I am assuming that I am not getting more fuel coming in = past that 1/2 throttle position, causing the engine to bog down past 1/2 = throttle. Best RPM I could obtain was 4400 rpm (in cruise with the prop = unloaded), and with a 2.19:1 gear reduction,that puts my max rpm on the = prop at only 2000. Barely enough to fly, let alone climb out. Will = continue problem solving and pass on results. On the positive side, = first flight was successful, aircraft flew well, and no-one got hurt. I = have to count that as a success. Take care. Paul Conner, Mobile, AL ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01C4E020.40006700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Congratulations, Paul.  A first = flight to=20 remember as most are.  Good to see sound decisions and = judgement=20 exercised when faced with problems.  
 
 4400 rpm is a tad on the low = side for=20 the engine to produce good power.  My calculations indicate = that if=20 you were at the best power A/F setting you were producing approx 138=20 HP.
 
Not familiar with the microtech ECU, = however, its=20 been my experience that if you are overly lean, the engine will = surge.  Rpm=20 will increase up into the "lean" region where it will be unable to = produce power=20 to sustain that rpm upon which rpm will decrease until it gets down into = a=20 "richer" region of operation.  There it will have the power to = produce=20 power and once again the rpm will start to increase, repeat, repeat,=20 etc.
 
My engine bogs (depending on exactly = what you mean=20 by that) when there is too much fuel.  So your diagnose may be = correct -=20 rather than overly lean it could be overly rich.  But I have = found the=20 rotary can run considerably overly rich before bogging.
 
Just wanted convey these thoughts to = you as you=20 trouble shoot.  Sounds like you have your temps OK, but remember = you were=20 probably not producing what you would like in terms of power. Temps will = go up=20 as power does.
 
Again, its great having you in the air, = welcome to=20 the club.
 
Ed
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul=20
Sent: Saturday, December 11, = 2004 6:22=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: DAR = visit?

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, December 11, = 2004 11:40=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: DAR=20 visit?

Hi, = Rusty....yep....airworthiness=20 certificate in hand.   
 
Congrats!  
 
Not looking like the greatest choice of = wind at your=20 airport today.  I just checked the wx for the area, and find a = 15kt=20 gusting to 22kt, which is almost a direct crosswind from the = left. =20 Should ease up this afternoon, and be much better = tomorrow.  With=20 that kind of left crosswind, coupled with my ample left torque, I'd = never be=20 able to take off :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty (more bite than=20 bark) 
 
You're correct, Rusty....the winds were a = direct=20 crosswind 20 knots, gusting higher (windsock standing straight = out). =20 At approximately 3:30 P.M.  my SQ2000 slipped the surly bounds = of=20 Earth....made a couple circuits around the airport and had an = uneventful=20 (yawn) landing.  The precarious part was the take-off and=20 climbout.  I am not getting enough power.  From 1/4 to 1/2 = throttle, engine accelerates smoothly and plenty of power. As soon = as I try=20 to go above 1/2 throttle, the engine begins to bog down. Advancing = the=20 throttle more only made it bog down even more.  On takeoff = roll, I was=20 only able to get 4400 rpm's at approximately 1/2 throttle. = Acceleration felt=20 OK, and the nosewheel lifted at around 70 knots. Mains lifted off = shortly=20 afterward, but it just didn't want to climb. (Flew fine in ground = effect, of=20 course).  Unfortunately, I had reached the point of no return = (short=20 runway) and past the accelerate/stop point, so I was = committed.  Found=20 a "V" in the treeline and headed for that.  Made=20 it...(whew)....continued slow climb to 2000 feet, made a couple of = circuits=20 around the airport and had a smooth landing (considering the strong, = gusty=20 crosswinds).  Down and stopped by mid field. =20
     I had a few = "bugs" to work=20 out, like tightening the tension on the nosewheel, so after 3 trips = to the=20 runway and back to the hangar, by the time I got to the = runway the=20 fourth time, water temperatures were up to 190 degrees.  = Fortunately,=20 on climbout they started dropping, and by the time I was downwind, = they were=20 stable at 170.  I am pleased that the temperature decreased in = the=20 climb.
     I have to work = on the=20 power problem ASAP.  I'm thinking it is mixture related. I had=20 programed the MicroTech ECU to be 10 percent leaner (for all = throttle=20 settings), and perhaps that was a mistake.  If I remember = correctly,=20 you need sufficient air and sufficient fuel to make power.  = Because the=20 butterfly in the throttlebody continues opening past 1/2 throttle, = I'm=20 reaonably certain that I am getting more air past 1/2 throttle. I am = assuming that I am not getting more fuel coming in past that 1/2 = throttle=20 position, causing the engine to bog down past 1/2 throttle.  = Best RPM I=20 could obtain was 4400 rpm (in cruise with the prop unloaded), and = with a=20 2.19:1 gear reduction,that puts my max rpm on the prop at only 2000. = Barely=20 enough to fly, let alone climb out. Will continue problem solving = and pass=20 on results.  On the positive side, first flight was successful, = aircraft flew well, and no-one got hurt.  I have to count that = as a=20 success.  Take care.  Paul Conner, Mobile,=20 = AL
------=_NextPart_000_011F_01C4E020.40006700--