Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 561680 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:40:17 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-069-132-109-019.carolina.rr.com [69.132.109.19]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iB9MdiCi012865 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:39:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c4de3f$fb86d500$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] fuel injector mounting Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:39:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C4DE16.127068A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C4DE16.127068A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exactly right, Ken. There are certainly cheaper injectors out there = that flow the same rate as the Mustang and others. However, they will = not fit the Mazda injector holes. You would have to mill/drill out the = primary holes in the block to get these to fit. The Mazda 460 cc/min are around 43 lb/hour flow Well, lets see new ones at around $235 each x 4 =3D $940 plus = tax/shipping vs the ones purchased used anywhere from $20-$50 each =3D = $80 -$200. Which I guess is the reason I keep purchasing used ones = {:>) Ed Anderson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: kenpowell@comcast.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel injector mounting Look in the archives for an earlier post where I listed the = measurements of both ends of the Mazda injectors and the Ford injectors = - they are not the same. Ken P. -------------- Original message --------------=20 OK, we have had this conversation before and I'm really not sure = what I'm going to do but...... I picked up my latest 5.0 Mustang = magazine and started looking for NEW injectors. Let's see, 42 lb set of = 8 for $289 from www.buyfordracing.com (good company, I've bought from = them several times); Ford Motorsports 42lb set for $359 from = www.houstonperformance.com; Steeda 42 lb(probably Bosch) for $309 from = www.gtrhipo.com. I usually see 38 lb injectors but not with the quick = look that I just completed. The Mustang aftermarket is a great source = of injectors, fuel pumps, fuel regulators, etc. After reading of all = the problems with the old Mazda injectors I'm again wondering if we = wouldn't just be better off to buy new ones. Go to the RC Engineering = website to determine the best size for your HP output (looks like 38=20 Ken Powell ------------ Original message --------------=20 I understand. That is a lot of the problems we all face with = these electro mechanical monsters of late design. You can spend more = than car is worth keeping minor engine details working properly. Of = course, it is still much better than the certificted aircraft world. = Remember, this is a word of art marketing world we are talking about = here; rebuilt normally means disassmbled by hand, inspected by a = technician, reassemled by hand using new parts to replace worn / faulty = parts; reconditioned normally means simply cleaned and inspected, = meeting original specs and refurbished means cleaned, tested, repaired, = if necessary, and re-packaged, usually to as nearly as new a state as = possible. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Leaks No disparagement of remanufacture parts implied, Jesse, I have = used many remanufactured parts and still do. However, I have had at = least 3 injectors which have stuck open or leaked in the 250 hours of = flying. These were cleaned and "refurbished" (not certain exactly what = that means). Would new parts have done any better - don't really know = but would have hoped so. However, infant mortality rate of new parts is certainly a = factor as well. Used injectors are probably better than new injectors - = however, after a certain point I am certain that the reliability curve = starts down again. A number of folks on the list have had injector problems at one = time or the other. I just think that 10-15 year old injectors are = getting a bit long in the tooth considering the environment they operate = in. Here we do have a choice in that new injectors are available - = just rather expensive. Four new injectors and I have the $$ I spent to = rebuild the engine in the first place. =20 Ed Anderson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: jesse farr=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Leaks Since I, at one time, owned a parts rebuilding business, I = gather you are suggesting that on certain type parts of certain age that = washed parts are probably not worth the risk of going with less than new = ? That's really all you can do with somethings. Of course, with others, = you can not only re-build and/or replace worn parts but you can even = improve on them. On others, cleaning and checking them is about all can = be done. jofarr, soddy tn ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson=20 These are refurbished injectors supposedly cleaned and flow = tested - but, unless you buy new Mazda injectors at $235, you are = getting remanufactured injectors which are getting to be almost 15 years = old in some cases. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C4DE16.127068A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Exactly right, Ken.  There are = certainly=20 cheaper injectors out there that flow the same rate as the Mustang and=20 others.  However, they will not fit the Mazda injector holes.  = You=20 would have to mill/drill out the primary holes in the block to get these = to=20 fit.
 
The Mazda 460 cc/min are around 43 = lb/hour=20 flow
 
Well, lets see new ones at around $235 = each x 4 =3D=20 $940 plus tax/shipping vs the ones purchased used anywhere from $20-$50 = each =3D=20 $80 -$200.   Which I guess is the reason I keep purchasing = used ones=20 {:>)
 
Ed Anderson
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 kenpowell@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, December 09, = 2004 4:42=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel = injector=20 mounting

Look in the archives for an earlier post where I listed the = measurements=20 of both ends of the Mazda injectors and the Ford injectors - they are = not the=20 same.     Ken P.
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
OK, we have had this conversation before and I'm really not = sure what=20 I'm going to do but......  I picked up my latest 5.0 Mustang = magazine=20 and started looking for NEW injectors.  Let's see, 42 lb set of = 8 for=20 $289 from www.buyfordracing.com  = (good=20 company, I've bought from them several times); Ford Motorsports 42lb = set for=20 $359 from www.houstonperformance.com;=20 Steeda 42 lb(probably Bosch) for $309 from www.gtrhipo.com.  I = usually see 38=20 lb injectors but not with the quick look that I just = completed.  The=20 Mustang aftermarket is a great source of injectors, fuel pumps, fuel = regulators, etc.  After reading of all the problems with the = old Mazda=20 injectors I'm again wondering if we wouldn't just be better off to = buy new=20 ones.  Go to the RC Engineering website to determine the best = size for=20 your HP output (looks like 38=20
Ken Powell
 
 
------------ Original message --------------
I understand.  That is a lot of the = problems we=20 all face with these electro mechanical monsters of late = design. You=20 can spend more than car is worth keeping minor engine details = working=20 properly. Of course, it is still much better than the = certificted=20 aircraft world. Remember, this is a word of art marketing world we = are=20 talking about here; rebuilt normally means disassmbled=20 by hand, inspected by a technician, reassemled by hand using new = parts to=20 replace worn / faulty parts; reconditioned normally means = simply=20 cleaned and inspected, meeting original specs and refurbished = means=20 cleaned, tested, repaired, if necessary, and re-packaged, = usually to=20 as nearly as new a state as possible.
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, December = 09, 2004=20 3:26 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fuel=20 Leaks

No disparagement of = remanufacture parts=20 implied, Jesse, I have used many remanufactured parts and still=20 do.  However, I have had at least 3 injectors which have = stuck open=20 or leaked in the 250 hours of flying.  These were cleaned = and=20 "refurbished" (not certain exactly what that means).  Would = new=20 parts have done any better - don't really know but would have = hoped=20 so.
 
However, infant mortality rate = of new parts=20 is certainly a factor as well.  Used injectors are probably = better=20 than new injectors - however, after a certain point I am certain = that=20 the reliability curve  starts down again.
 
A number of folks on the = list=20  have had injector problems at one time or the other.  = I just=20 think that 10-15 year old injectors are getting a bit long in = the tooth=20 considering the environment they operate in.
 
Here we do have a choice in = that new=20 injectors are available - just rather expensive.  Four new=20 injectors and I have the $$ I spent to rebuild the engine in the = first=20 place. 
 
Ed Anderson
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 jesse=20 farr
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Thursday, = December 09, 2004=20 3:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Fuel=20 Leaks

Since I, at one time, owned a = parts=20 rebuilding business, I gather you are suggesting that on = certain type=20 parts of certain age that washed parts are probably not worth = the risk=20 of going with less than new ? That's really all you can do = with=20 somethings.  Of course, with others, you can not only = re-build=20 and/or replace worn parts but you can even improve on = them.  On=20 others, cleaning and checking them is about all can be=20 done.
jofarr, soddy tn
----- Original Message ----- = From: Ed Anderson =
 
These are refurbished = injectors=20 supposedly cleaned and flow tested - but, unless you buy new = Mazda=20 injectors at $235, you are getting remanufactured injectors = which=20 are getting to be almost 15 years old in some=20 = cases.
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C4DE16.127068A0--