Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.168.108] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 556894 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 05 Dec 2004 19:36:25 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.168.108; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 16:35:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.98.22 by BAY3-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:34:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.98.22] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag and fuel pressure saga. Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:34:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01C4DB01.65F3E730" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0009.2900 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:34:12 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2004 00:35:02.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[6C933580:01C4DB2B] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C4DB01.65F3E730 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tommy, The fuel pressure going high and the mixture going full rich at = the same time is pretty coincidental not to be related. I'd be looking = at the regulator with some suspicion. The first one I dug out of the = used parts bin for the Renesis was bad. I grabbed the one off my old = 2nd gen engine and it is still flying.=20 Steve, the sag does sound like the sparkplug problem but a lot of other = things can't be ruled out. Plugs are easiest things to try though. How = many hours on them? Turbo is going to be hard on them, mine last longer = when I'm flying easy. I couldn't resist the cold air yesterday and went flying locally. Felt = like the power was unlimited! I could climb at 1000 fpm at 200 mph. No = exciting stories though, all was wonderfully "boring". Tracy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Brooks=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag and fuel pressure saga. Tommy, This problem sounds very, very familiar. I have the same issue with = the mixture. In my case, my fuel pressure regulator was definitely a = problem, as it wasn't maintaining the pressure. The pressure would really jump = up with both pumps running. Even after replacing the regulator though, I still don't seem to be = able to tune the controller to the proper mixture below 2500 RPM's. Above = that, it seems OK, but is very rich below 2500. I can though get a change in mixture, if I rotate the mixture control CCW. It still runs though at = full CCW at low RPM's. It used to die. I saw Ed Anderson's reply to you about the possibility of a leaking = fuel injector. Perhaps I have the same problem, since it is not a full = moon. Steve Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Tommy James Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 6:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag and fuel pressure saga. Okay, here's my saga for the day to go along with Steve's I departed 31A heading for 28A, famous as the Rotary mecca of NC and = home of Ed Anderson, OAT 55*, coolant at 180 or so. Cruising at 25x25 when the = red EIS light blinks a warning fuel pressure at 45 or more. My GPS had = ceased operations for the day, but I had just passed RUQ. I knew where I was, = more or less. I turned and made a precautionary (read puckered)landing at = RUQ. Fuel pressure fluctuating from 42 to 52. The cowling came off, I always carry a few tools, and I checked the connections for the fuel pressure gauge which were secure and showed = no change. A visual inspection of the fuel system showed nothing unusual = and everything was cool, literally. After sitting for 30 minutes or more the fuel pressure read 31 with = the pump and engine off. Not understanding anything more, I put the cowling = back on and fired it up. Hard start(longer crank time)so I used the cold = start option. Cranked right up now, but the mixture meter is off the scale = rich.. Not running very smooth with misses obvious. B controller produced no change. After a long taxi, the temp is up to 150 or so. Fuel pressure = now showing 36 which is normal. Adding backup pump took pressure to 43. = Things look normal again. Departed with sun in my eyes so I could not read = mixture meter, but I know it was about 8bars as I started TO roll. Climbed out = to the north and noticed mixture meter was off the scale rich. Moving = the control to 9 o'clock made absolutely no change in mixture or = performance. (this is usually enough to cause a stumble) The short flight back = home was uneventful, except for my wondering what would go off next. Electing = to climb as much as possible, I was at 4500 and 7 miles out, so, the low = power glide might have cleared the engine as it ran smoothly after landing = with mixture reading normal 6 bars. Fuel pressure back to 32 at idle. Soooo, does anybody have any insight? I'll go out tomorrow PM and = test everything and fly for effect. Thanks to all, Tommy James<>< -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Steve Brooks Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:28 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag Tommy, I'm not certain about the coolant, but the oil was barely 130F, the = coolant was pretty low.... maybe 140 or so if I had to guess. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Tommy James Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:26 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag Steve, What was the coolant temp at takeoff? Sounds like the engine = went lean with the cold temperature and boost. I'd make sure it was 'super = rich' for takeoff, like 8 bars or more on the EM2 mixture meter. Regards, Tommy<>< --- [Pre-scanned for viruses by Internet America.] >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C4DB01.65F3E730 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tommy, The fuel pressure going high and the mixture going full rich = at the=20 same time is pretty coincidental not to be related.  I'd be looking = at the=20 regulator with some suspicion.  The first one I dug out of the used = parts=20 bin for the Renesis was bad.  I grabbed the one off my old 2nd gen=20 engine and it is still flying. 
 
Steve, the sag does sound like the sparkplug problem but a lot of = other=20 things can't be ruled out.  Plugs are easiest things to try = though. =20 How many hours on them?  Turbo is going to be hard on them, mine = last=20 longer when I'm flying easy.
 
I couldn't resist the cold air yesterday and went flying = locally. =20 Felt like the power was unlimited!  I could climb at 1000 fpm at = 200=20 mph.  No exciting stories though, all was wonderfully = "boring".
 
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve=20 Brooks
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 = 9:01=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power = sag and=20 fuel pressure saga.

Tommy,
This problem sounds very, very = familiar.  I have=20 the same issue with the
mixture.  In my case, my fuel pressure = regulator was definitely a problem,
as it wasn't maintaining the=20 pressure.  The pressure would really jump up
with both pumps=20 running.

Even after replacing the regulator though, I still = don't seem=20 to be able to
tune the controller to the proper mixture below 2500=20 RPM's.  Above that, it
seems OK, but is very rich below = 2500.  I=20 can though get a change in
mixture, if I rotate the mixture control = CCW.  It still runs though at full
CCW at low RPM's.  It = used to=20 die.

I saw Ed Anderson's reply to you about the possibility of = a=20 leaking fuel
injector.  Perhaps I have the same problem, since = it is=20 not a full moon.

Steve Brooks

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
Behalf Of Tommy = James
Sent:=20 Saturday, December 04, 2004 6:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag and fuel pressure=20 saga.


Okay, here's my saga for the day to go along with=20 Steve's
I departed 31A heading for 28A, famous as the Rotary mecca = of NC=20 and home of
Ed Anderson, OAT 55*, coolant at 180 or so. Cruising at = 25x25=20 when the red
EIS light blinks a warning fuel pressure at 45 or = more. =20 My GPS had ceased
operations for the day, but I had just passed = RUQ. I knew=20 where I was, more
or less.  I turned and made a precautionary = (read=20 puckered)landing at RUQ.
Fuel pressure fluctuating from 42 to=20 52.

The cowling came off, I always carry a few tools, and I = checked=20 the
connections for the fuel pressure gauge which were secure and = showed=20 no
change. A visual inspection of the fuel system showed nothing = unusual=20 and
everything was cool, literally.
After sitting for 30 minutes = or more=20 the fuel pressure read 31 with the pump
and engine off. Not = understanding=20 anything more, I put the cowling back on
and fired it up.  = Hard=20 start(longer crank time)so I used the cold start
option.  = Cranked=20 right up now, but the mixture meter is off the scale rich..
Not = running=20 very smooth with misses obvious.  B controller produced = no
change.=20 After a long taxi, the temp is up to 150 or so.  Fuel pressure=20 now
showing 36 which is normal. Adding backup pump took pressure to = 43.=20 Things
look normal again. Departed with sun in my eyes so I could = not read=20 mixture
meter, but I know it was about 8bars as I started TO roll. = Climbed=20 out to
the north and noticed mixture meter was off the scale = rich. =20 Moving the
control to 9 o'clock made absolutely no change in = mixture or=20 performance.
(this is usually enough to cause a = stumble)   The=20 short flight back home was
uneventful, except for my wondering what = would=20 go off next. Electing to
climb as much as possible, I was at 4500 = and 7=20 miles out, so, the low power
glide might have cleared the engine as = it ran=20 smoothly after landing with
mixture reading normal 6 bars.  = Fuel=20 pressure back to 32 at idle.
 Soooo, does anybody have any=20 insight?  I'll go out tomorrow PM and test
everything and fly = for=20 effect.

Thanks to all,
Tommy=20 James<><



-----Original Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf = Of Steve=20 Brooks
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:28 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag

Tommy,
I'm = not=20 certain about the coolant, but the oil was barely 130F, the = coolant
was=20 pretty low.... maybe 140 or so if I had to=20 guess.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary = motors=20 in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
Behalf Of Tommy=20 James
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:26 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: power sag


Steve, What = was the=20 coolant temp at takeoff?  Sounds like the engine went
lean = with the=20 cold temperature and boost.  I'd make sure it was 'super = rich'
for=20 takeoff, like 8 bars or more on the EM2 mixture meter.
Regards,=20 Tommy<><


---
[Pre-scanned for viruses by = Internet=20 America.]


>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>&= gt; =20 Archive:   http://lancai= ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html


>> =20 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>&= gt; =20 Archive:   http://lancai= ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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