Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 548818 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:34:25 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-069-132-109-019.carolina.rr.com [69.132.109.19]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iAT2Xq4S019907 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:33:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002201c4d5bb$e2f2cc60$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: high oil temps must end Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:34:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C4D591.F9E38BF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C4D591.F9E38BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message =20 The extra power afforded by the C drive must just be pushing my heat = load beyond what the current oil setup can handle. Stay tuned for more = fiberglass fun. Ed, have you noticed any of this temp increase? Also, what was the = size of your oil inlet again? I know you have a much more ideal duct = shape than I do, which is probably helping quite a bit. At the moment, = I'll settle for brute force cooling if it actually works. Rusty (joining John with my "tired of this" attitude) =20 Yes, Rusty. I have noticed that both oil and coolant elevated once = I went to the C drive turning more engine rpm (and producing more = Power). My coolant intake area is currentl a total of 28 sq inch for = both - with 10 sq inch on the left core and 18 sq inch on the right = core. My oil cooler inlet is 24 sq inches. When I reduced my coolant = inlet from a total of 48 sq inch to 28 sq inch oil temp remained the = same but coolant went up 5F (this with the B drive). But, I could run WOT (approx 6100) and coolant would stay around = 180-185F as did the oil. However, when I went to the C drive I noticed = that at WOT (approx 6400) and 11.5 gph that my oil and coolant both were = pushing 200F at 6500 MSL. My conclusion is my current 28 sq inch for core inlets is a bit on = the small side for the C drive and high RPM/power. I intend to increase = it to a total of 38 sq inch from the current 28 for coolant but leave = the oil at 24 sq inch. =20 Giving how cool your coolant is your oil temp problem might be even = worst if your coolant was not helping to carry some of the oil heat = load.=20 I am using the stock mazda oil cooler which might be the difference. = With the old Earl oil cooler I eventually ended up with a 5" dia hose = feeding it air with is approx 19 sq inches - that made the oil temp = barely cool enough to fly as long as the OAT was not over 80F. But, at = that time I was probably not producing much more that 120-130 HP.That = was the 4th mod. The 5th mode was installing the stock oil cooler and = my chin scoop for it. I would say that if you enlarge your oil inlet to 38 sq inch and = still do not get the relief from your oil temps that you might = reconsider the use of the core for the oil cooler. 38 sq inch should = provide plenty of air for the oil cooler. I did go flying Saturday and got the engine up to 6600 rpm at 3500 = MSL. =20 Tomorrow off comes my "intimitator" mufflers and my new design to = see if I can quite the exhaust bark without killing the performance. My = take offs are not getting pretty smooth now that I am able to anticipate = the amount of rudder to put in at left off. Ed Anderson ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C4D591.F9E38BF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
 
The extra = power=20 afforded by the C drive must just be pushing my heat load beyond = what the=20 current oil setup can handle.  Stay tuned for more fiberglass=20 fun.
 
Ed, have = you noticed=20 any of this temp increase?  Also, what was the size of your oil = inlet=20 again?  I know you have a much more ideal duct shape than I do, = which=20 is probably helping quite a bit.  At the moment, I'll settle = for brute=20 force cooling if it actually works.
 
Rusty = (joining John=20 with my "tired of this" attitude)
 
 
Yes, Rusty.  I have noticed = that both oil=20 and coolant elevated once I went to the C drive turning more engine = rpm (and=20 producing more Power).  My coolant intake area is currentl a = total of=20 28 sq inch for both - with 10 sq inch on the left core and 18 sq = inch on the=20 right core.  My oil cooler inlet is 24 sq inches.  When I = reduced=20 my coolant inlet from a total of 48 sq inch to 28 sq inch oil temp = remained=20 the same but coolant went up 5F (this with the B = drive).
 
But, I could run WOT (approx 6100) = and coolant=20 would stay around 180-185F as did the oil.  However, when I = went to the=20 C drive I noticed that at WOT (approx 6400) and 11.5 gph that my oil = and=20 coolant both were pushing 200F at 6500 MSL.
 
My conclusion is my current 28 sq = inch for core=20 inlets is a bit on the small side for the C drive and high = RPM/power. =20 I intend to increase it to a total of 38 sq inch from the current=20 28 for coolant but leave the oil at 24 sq inch.  =
 
Giving how cool your coolant is = your oil temp=20 problem might be even worst if your coolant was not helping to carry = some of=20 the oil heat load.
 
I am using the stock mazda oil = cooler which=20 might be the difference.  With the old Earl oil cooler I = eventually=20 ended up with a 5" dia hose feeding it air with is approx 19 sq = inches -=20 that made the oil temp barely cool enough to fly as long as the OAT = was not=20 over 80F.  But, at that time I was probably not producing much = more=20 that 120-130 HP.That was the 4th = mod. =20 The 5th mode was installing the stock oil cooler and my chin scoop = for=20 it.
 
I would say that if you enlarge = your oil inlet=20 to 38 sq inch and still do not get the relief from your oil temps = that you=20 might reconsider the use of the core for the oil cooler.  38 sq = inch=20 should provide plenty of air for the oil cooler.
 
I did go flying Saturday and got = the engine up=20 to 6600 rpm at 3500 MSL. 
 
Tomorrow off comes my "intimitator" = mufflers=20 and my new design to see if I can quite the exhaust bark without = killing the=20 performance.  My take offs are not getting pretty smooth now = that I am=20 able to anticipate the amount of rudder to put in at left = off.
 
Ed Anderson
 
 
 
 
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