Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.3) with ESMTP id 432554 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:41:16 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-069-132-109-019.carolina.rr.com [69.132.109.19]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i8Q2eg4I027638 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight with Monster Prop Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:40:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_ACAA_01C4A28F.EDFEFA70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_ACAA_01C4A28F.EDFEFA70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Kelly Yes, I plan on being there weather permitting Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight with Monster Prop Ed, I can hardly wait to see what the RD1C/Long prop does to a Dyke = Delta!! Jim=20 Maher is very close (Last I heard) to flying his Ross 2.85/IVO 3 blade = Delta. Jim how about an update!! Hope to see you at Tracy's Ed......Am = coming with Ken Powell. Great Flight report! -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" : --------------=20 Hi Folks, Finally back on the List after I lost my harddisk last week. Have = not had a chance to read through all the backlog, so if anyone addressed = anything to me personally, would appreciate it if you would resend the = message. Monday got first flight in with new prop, was probably not the best = day, but had waited for over a week as remanats of IVAN went through. = Wind was from the NE gusting to 18Kts.=20 "P" Factor I did find out on the first take off what the "P" factor really = stood for - and it isn''t "propeller"{:>). Wind was from the right = quarant on take- off, but knowing what to expect (I thought) based on my = taxi test, I proceeded down the runway. It was taking quite a bit of = right rudder to keep the nose pointed straight ahead - but with the nose = wheel all was managable - until I lifted off. The moment the tires left the ashaflt, the aircraft jumped to the = left side of the runway (hangars on that side). Full right rudder and = then some was required {:>). Wind from the right quardrant was = probably a major factor. The good news was ROC was over 1500 fpm which for my lead sled was = about 400-500 fpm greater than normally with a full load of fuel. So I = was up and high above the trees very quickly. I was climbing out at the = IAS (120 mph) that best suited my old installation - so it may prove = that a different airspeed will provide an even better rate of climb. Top Speed Climbed up to 7000 MSL for a high speed run. Eventually got up to = 6300 rpm (perhaps a bit more) and 175 mph indicated with OAT of 71F = (actually 5 deg warmer at 7000 than on surface). Calculations put this = at 201 MPH with a fuel burn of 11.28 GPH. At WOT at 7000 msl I would = normally burn 12 gph with the old set up. So the big prop has not hurt = and may have even helped top end speed. Although I did not time the = climb to 7000 msl, it certainly seemed to come by quicker than with the = old prop and gear box. Inlet Area Also, this was the first flight with my 2 GM cores inlet area = reduced to a total of 28 sq inches, temperatures were what I would = excect on climb-out on a 65F OAT day. Oil was approaching 200F and = coolant 210F when leveled off at 3000MSL and soon dropped down to 165 = Oil and 170 coolant at 5200 rpm at 6 GPH fuel burn. One thing I learned was that the 28 sq inch inlet is fine for cruise = HP with temps around 165-170F on oil and coolant at engine rpms of = 5000-5600 burning around 7 gph. But, by the end of my high speed run = the temps of both had pushed up to 200F where they stabilzed. So I will = probably open up the left hand inlet ( that I had reduced to 10 sq = inches) to the same area (18 sq inches) of the right hand inlet giving = me a total of 36 sq inches of inlet area for the radiators. Landed at an airfield with 100 wide runway to refine my take off = technique - but it turns out the wind was 90Deg across that runway and = the take off was not much different than the first (but with less of a = personal "P" factor having more runway to play with {:>). Once the = wheels left the ground the aircraft want to go left. So decided to get = back and set it down before the wind got worst. I guess the good news = is that even with a cross wind gusting to 18kts the "P" factor was = managable, if a bit hairy. On approach found that I will need to reduce my idle rpm, that big = prop even turning slowly was at my old idle (2000 rpm) simply still = turning too fast and it was difficult to keep the approach speed down. = . But, landed safely and decided to wait for a better day. Injector Diffusers One other thing to report. I had stopped using the injector = diffusers (those little plastic inserts that are designed to break up = the injected fuel spray more) in my last two manifolds. After I had = removed them, I had noticed that I could not lean the engine much = beyond 6 -7 gph without the engine starting to stumble a bit. So this = time I stuck them back in front on the injectors and could lean the = engine down to 4.5-5 gph before it started to stumble. So don't know = for certain but it appears that the diffusers do help. Wonder if anyone = else had attempted flying with and without and noticed any difference? So hopefully the computer is finished with its problems and I will = report more from next flight. So all in all I am very pleased with the = first flight. My intially impression is I may need to have the prop = trimmed an inch or so as I would like a bit more rpm for take off and = climbout. But, will conduct a bunch more flights before deciding Best Regards Ed Anderson ------=_NextPart_000_ACAA_01C4A28F.EDFEFA70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Kelly
 
    Yes, I plan on being = there=20 weather permitting
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Saturday, September 25, = 2004 6:33=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First = Flight=20 with Monster Prop

Ed,

   I can hardly wait to see what the RD1C/Long prop does = to a=20 Dyke Delta!! Jim

Maher is very close (Last I heard) to flying his Ross 2.85/IVO 3 = blade=20 Delta.

  Jim how about an update!! Hope to see you at Tracy's = Ed......Am=20 coming with

Ken Powell. Great Flight report!

--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "Ed Anderson" :=20 --------------
Hi Folks,
 
Finally back on the List after I = lost my=20 harddisk last week. Have not had a chance to read through all = the=20 backlog, so if anyone addressed anything to me personally, = would=20 appreciate it if you would resend = the message.
 
 Monday got first flight in = with new prop,=20 was probably not the best day, but had waited for over a week as = remanats of=20 IVAN went through.   Wind was from the NE gusting to = 18Kts.=20
 
"P" = Factor
I did find out on the first take = off what the=20 "P" factor really stood for - and it isn''t = "propeller"{:>).  Wind=20 was from the right quarant on take- off, but knowing what to expect = (I=20 thought) based on my taxi test, I proceeded down the runway.  = It was=20 taking quite a bit of right rudder to keep the nose pointed straight = ahead -=20 but with the nose wheel all was managable - until I lifted = off.
 
The moment the tires left the = ashaflt, the=20 aircraft jumped to the left side of the runway (hangars on that = side). =20 Full right rudder and then some was required {:>).   = Wind from=20 the right quardrant was probably a major  factor.
 
The good news was ROC was over 1500 = fpm which=20 for my lead sled was about 400-500 fpm greater than normally with a = full=20 load of fuel. So I was up and high above the trees very quickly. I = was=20 climbing out at the IAS (120 mph) that best suited my old = installation - so=20 it may prove that a different airspeed will provide an even better = rate of=20 climb.
 
Top = Speed
Climbed up to 7000 MSL for a high = speed=20 run.  Eventually got up to 6300 rpm (perhaps a bit more) and = 175 mph=20 indicated with OAT of 71F (actually 5 deg warmer at 7000 than on=20 surface).  Calculations put this at 201 MPH with a fuel burn of = 11.28=20 GPH. At WOT at 7000 msl I would normally burn 12 gph with the = old set=20 up.   So the big prop has not hurt and may have even = helped top=20 end speed.  Although I did not time the climb to 7000 msl, it = certainly=20 seemed to come by quicker than with the old prop and gear=20 box.
 
Inlet = Area
Also, this was the first flight = with my 2 GM=20 cores inlet area reduced to  a total of 28 sq inches, = temperatures were=20 what I would excect on climb-out on a 65F OAT day.  Oil was = approaching=20 200F and coolant 210F when leveled off at 3000MSL and soon dropped = down to=20 165 Oil and 170 coolant at 5200 rpm at 6 GPH fuel burn.
 
One thing I learned was that the 28 = sq inch=20 inlet is fine for cruise HP with temps around 165-170F on oil and = coolant at=20 engine rpms of 5000-5600 burning around 7 gph.  But, by the end = of my=20 high speed run the temps of both had pushed up to 200F where they=20 stabilzed. So I will probably open up the left hand inlet = ( that I=20 had reduced to 10 sq inches) to the same area (18 sq inches) of the = right=20 hand inlet giving me a total of 36 sq inches of inlet area for the=20 radiators.
 
Landed at an airfield with 100 wide = runway to=20 refine my take off technique - but it turns out the wind was 90Deg = across=20 that runway and the take off was not much different than the first = (but with=20 less of a personal "P" factor having more runway to play with = {:>). =20 Once the wheels left the ground the aircraft want to go left.  = So=20 decided to get back and set it down before the wind got worst.  = I guess=20 the good news is that even with a cross wind gusting to 18kts the = "P" factor=20 was managable, if a bit hairy.
 
On approach found that I will need = to reduce my=20 idle rpm, that big prop even turning slowly was at my old idle (2000 = rpm)=20 simply still turning too fast and it was difficult to keep the = approach=20 speed down.  .
 
But, landed safely and decided to = wait for a=20 better day.
 
Injector=20 Diffusers
One other thing to report.  I = had stopped=20 using the injector diffusers (those little plastic inserts that are = designed=20 to break up the injected fuel spray more) in my last two=20 manifolds. After I had removed them,  I had noticed that I = could=20 not lean the engine much beyond 6 -7  gph without the = engine=20 starting to stumble a bit.  So this time I stuck them back in = front on=20 the injectors and could lean the engine down to 4.5-5 gph before it = started=20 to stumble.  So don't know for certain but it appears that the=20 diffusers do help.  Wonder if anyone else had attempted flying = with and=20 without and noticed any difference?
 
 
So hopefully the computer is = finished with its=20 problems and I will report more from next flight.  So all in = all I am=20 very pleased with the first flight.  My intially impression is = I may=20 need to have the prop trimmed an inch or so as I would like a bit = more rpm=20 for take off and climbout.  But, will conduct a bunch more = flights=20 before deciding
 
Best Regards
 
 
Ed Anderson
 
 
 
 
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