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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-400111@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water pump problem
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 07:54:35 -0400
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Hey, David, not to worry.  We have all hit the "Send" button on an e mail or
two and later wondered why we did. {:>)

Ed

Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water pump problem


> Disregard my last two e-mails - hit "Delete" on them.
>
> I apologize for not looking at my cores before I wrote the last 2 e-mails.
> All I said was an exercise in massaging bad data from a bad memory.
>
> I got up from bed after sending those 2 e-mails and went out to the shop
and
> looked for "welds" for the "blocking plates".  No such thing.  The core
sat
> in the car with two tubes sticking up, but the fiinned tubes ran
> horizontally, between two "end caps" that were vertical, so there was a
tube
> in each end cap - 1 for inlet, 1 for outlet.  You guys all knew that - I
had
> just forgotten or failed to "understand" what I "saw".
>
> Just to be sure, I ran a piece of safety wire down the shorter, bigger dia
> tube and it went all the way to the bottom of the "end cap" with no
blocking
> plates.  So, it is NOT serpentine.
>
> Wish there was a way to delete those 2 e-mails from the server so you
> wouldn't waste time reading them and wondering what kind of weird evap
core
> I was talking about.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 10:43 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water pump problem
>
>
> > I just checked all my saved e-mails on A/C cores - and I find NONE where
> > someone reported he had cut one open and thoroughly examined the flow
path
> > and details related thereto.  This recent info indicates to me that the
> > plates "2 inches down from one pipe" must be to cause "serpentine flow",
> > i.e., block off maybe bottom 2/3 so liquid flows across one way only in
> the
> > top third, then another blocking plate 2/3 down on the other side forces
> the
> > liquid to reverse course and go back across in the opposite direction,
> > coming out UNDER the first blocking plate on that side, the being forced
> > down to reverse course through the bottom third.  Then, when it comes
out
> of
> > bottom third of tubes on far side (from original inlet), it has to get
> back
> > to the top "exit tube" on the far side - that must be what the "inside
> tube"
> > is for - to go thru the blocking plate on that far side.  Does this make
> > sense?
> >
> > Now, having said that, I just found and reviewed a note I made last 17
Nov
> > 03.  I called the guy at www.frigidair.net and asked specifically about
> > "serpenine" or not? on the Caprice evap cores he makes and sells from
the
> > web site.  The website doc even has a column, which is blank, labeled
> > "Serpentine".  That is what prompted my call to him, to confirm if there
> is,
> > or is not, serpentine flow.  He said they were just like a radiator -
all
> > the stuff goes in on one side and flows across all the tubes in one
> > direction to the other side and out.
> >     -  Now, he is an "aftermarket"mfr of "OEM" cores.  Thus, the cores
> > "should" be same as OEM, the stuff we are taking out of cars.
> >     -  Base on this latest report that there is a "blocking plate", I no
> > longer believe the guy's info.  Either he doesn't know how his stuff is
> made
> > or he is not making it the way GM/Harrison made them.
> >
> > So, please tell us again, and more, about "removing the tube":  Wasn't
it
> > welded to a "blocking plate" (so no leaks around it)?  Or was it a
fairly
> > close or tight fit thru a hole in the "blocking plate" to make leaks
> > inconsequential?
> >
> > In any case, based on what I think has been reported and what I
understand
> > about a 3 layer "over, back, and over again to the other side"
serpentine
> > internal construction, here's why I believe you are cooling only on the
> top
> > third of the core:
> >     -  The coolant comes in on the side with blocking plate 1/3 of way
> down
> > and there was never any tube in that side - stuff can't get past that
> plate
> > and is forced "over" thru top 1/3 of tubes.
> >     -  Once it gets to the other side, with the tube removed, there is a
> > hole directly "out" the top of the core, which is where the fluid goes.
> At
> > the same time, if any tries to go down and "back across" to original
side,
> > it really won't flow, as it is also going down through the hole left in
> the
> > "2/3 down blocking plate" when the tube was removed from hole in that
> plate,
> > and so fluid tries to flow "back through both the "middle third" and, if
> > goes down thru hole in blocking plate, also tries to go "back" thru
bottom
> > third, so going across both middle and bottom thirds - and nowhere to
go -
> > just a stagnant flow area with no outlet.
> >     -  So, all the flow from top 1/3 goes out the top and "warm stuff"
> just
> > sits in the bottom 2/3 of tubes.
> >
> > Sound like what you are seeing/feeling?  If so, putting the "tube on
> > 2nd/exit side" back thru the "2/3 down blocking plate" should restore
> normal
> > serpentine flow, with all fluid come OUT of the TUBE you just put back
in,
> > which has to either be sticking out of top of that "end cap" or be
welded
> to
> > the top, so nothing from top 1/3 can escape without going thru the
entire
> "3
> > pass serpentine path".
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net>
> > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:35 PM
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water pump problem
> >
> >
> > No.  It had one tube in each of the tanks.  Both in the top.   One tank
is
> > blocked off by a plate about 2" down from the top.  The other tank
> > originally had a tube in it internally that extended to within an inch
or
> so
> > of the bottom.
> >
> > Does that make sense ?
> >
> >
> > I must be misunderstanding something, because I don't see how the
original
> > configuration could have been using the whole core in the car.  Let's
> forget
> > that for now though.
> >
> > You should now have a tube in each tank.  Both tanks should be open from
> top
> > to bottom, meaning that you'd have to have drilled a hole through the
> > blocking plate that was installed in the tank.  If you didn't open up
the
> > blocking plate, you're only using the top two inches of the core, which
> > would explain why that's all that's getting hot.
> >
> > To rephrase this another way, one tube should come into the top of one
> tank.
> > The liquid running into the tank should be able to go through every one
of
> > the flat tubes that join the tank.  The liquid should be able to come
out
> > every one of those flat tubes in the other tank, and go up and out
through
> > the outlet tube.  Is that what you have now?
> >
> > If the above wasn't clear, I'm afraid we're going to have to resort to
> > drawings :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rusty (glad the South FL boys survived)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >
>
>
>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html