Return-Path: Received: from mail.tsisp.com ([65.23.108.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP-TLS id 369359 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:58:22 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.23.108.44; envelope-from=steve@tsisp.com Received: from stevehome by mail.tsisp.com (Technical Support Inc.) with SMTP id CQA74584 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:57:47 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Steve Brooks" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Rev 3 flight report Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:59:25 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c4851a$cf9949b0$6400a8c0@WORKGROUP.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01C484F9.4887A9B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C484F9.4887A9B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rusty, Sorry to hear that rev 3 is having problems. I can relate to the high temp issues though. I'm currently working on my own rev 2 - reworking the cooling system. I've done away with my large radiator in exchange for 2 evaporator cores. These are (will) be mounted more in line with the incoming air flow. I'm curious about how the temperatures you are seeing now compare to when you had the turbo. You should have been making similar horsepower then as well. Were your temperatures with the turbo also high ? Steve Brooks (working on rev 2) -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell Duffy Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:57 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Rev 3 flight report Greetings, I flew the rev-3 mod today for the first time, and there were no fatalities. Unfortunately, that's about the end of the good news. I need to spend some time thinking about this, because it just doesn't make complete sense to me. Comments will be appreciated. Cheers, Rusty (tired, depressed, confused) 8-17-04 .5 hours / 28.6 total Flew the rev-3 setup for the first time, and it's clear this mod isn't over. First, the plane pulls HARD left on takeoff. Tracy probably saved me from wrecking the plane with his advice to keep the tailwheel on the ground initially to use it for extra steering. I made two takeoffs, and while not uncontrollable, it's not what I'd like to end up with. I'm already planning to shim the mount to get the left thrust out. During climb, I needed even more right rudder. If you let off the pedal, it pegs the ball on the right of the inclinometer. In cruise, the ball is off to the right about as much as it was off to the left before. Climb rpm was only 5650 at 120 mph. This was just short of 2000 fpm climb, but can't really be trusted since I had a ceiling of only 1400 ft to work with. I really didn't get established in climb long enough to tell what it was really doing. Temps go up fast now, but again, I wasn't able to climb long enough to find out just how bad it is. I spend some time orbiting the airport at 1400 ft, and about 5000 rpm. The temps stabilized at 192 for oil, and 158 for water. I went to full throttle for about 15 seconds, and saw a max of about 28 inches MAP at about 170 mph TAS. Forgot to note the rpm, but I didn't let it build up anyway. Temps go up fast. After the flight, I did some full throttle runs on the ground to look at the MAP. With my current setup using the small plenum I made, I got 5500 rpm (down from yesterday for some reason), at 27.0 MAP. Removing the inlet tubes from the throttle body gave me 5750 rpm, at 27.3 MAP. I didn't think to check the accuracy of the EM-2 MAP display. I had a picture of my EM-2 when it was the only thing on, and it read 30.0. That struck me as odd that it would be exactly 30, then I realized that it gets it's MAP from the EC-2, which was not on. I've still got to verify this is correct, but bet that it is. So, what does this leave me with. First, I'm not getting the 6200 static rpm that I think Tracy reported with his (still unverified) 13B setup. On the other hand, I must be making considerably more HP than before, because the temps are climbing at an alarming rate, and nothing has been changed on the cooling system, aside from losing the EWP, which has no effect on oil of course. There is a possibility that my prop is larger in some way than Tracy's, though that's a long shot. If the MAP readings are correct on the EM-2, I'm losing about 3 inches of MAP in the throttle body alone. My ports are on the engine side of the throttle body, which is only about 4 inches long. The throttle body is the same ID as the intake runners, so am I losing 3 inches of MAP every 4 inches of intake runner. This is depressing, though as always, there's significant room for improvement. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C484F9.4887A9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Ru= sty,

So= rry to hear that rev 3 is having problems.  I can relate to the high temp issues though.  I’m currently working on my own rev 2 – = reworking the cooling system.  = I’ve done away with my large radiator in exchange for 2 evaporator cores.  These are (will) be mounted = more in line with the incoming air flow.  =

 

I&= #8217;m curious about how the temperatures you are seeing now compare to when you had = the turbo.  You should have = been making similar horsepower then as well.  Were your temperatures with the turbo also high ?  =

 

St= eve Brooks (working on rev 2)

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell Duffy
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, = 2004 10:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Rev = 3 flight report

 

Greetings,<= /p>

 <= /p>

I flew the rev-3 mod today for the first time, and there were no = fatalities.  Unfortunately, that's about the end of the good news.  I need to = spend some time thinking about this, because it just doesn't make complete = sense to me.  Comments will be appreciated.<= /p>

 <= /p>

Cheers,<= /p>

Rusty (tired, depressed, confused)<= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

8-17-04  .5 hours  /  28.6 = total<= /p>

 <= /p>

Flew the rev-3 setup for the first time, and it’s clear this mod = isn’t over.  <= /p>

 <= /p>

First, the plane pulls HARD left on takeoff.  Tracy probably saved me from wrecking the plane with his advice to keep the = tailwheel on the ground initially to use it for extra steering.  I made two takeoffs, and while not uncontrollable, = it’s not what I’d like to end up with.  I’m already planning to shim the mount to get the left thrust out.  <= /p>

 <= /p>

During climb, I needed even more right rudder.  If you let off the pedal, it pegs the ball on the right of the inclinometer.  In cruise, = the ball is off to the right about as much as it was off to the left before.  <= /p>

 <= /p>

Climb rpm was only 5650 at 120 mph.  = This was just short of 2000 fpm climb, but can’t really be trusted since I = had a ceiling of only 1400 ft to work with.  = I really didn’t get established in climb long enough to tell what it = was really doing.  Temps go up fast = now, but again, I wasn’t able to climb long enough to find out just how bad = it is.  <= /p>

 <= /p>

I = spend some time orbiting the airport at 1400 ft, and about 5000 rpm.  The temps stabilized at 192 = for oil, and 158 for water.  I went = to full throttle for about 15 seconds, and saw a max of about 28 inches MAP at = about 170 mph TAS.  Forgot to = note the rpm, but I didn’t let it build up anyway.  Temps go up fast.  = <= /p>

 <= /p>

After the flight, I did some full throttle runs on the ground to look at the = MAP.  With my current setup using = the small plenum I made, I got 5500 rpm (down from yesterday for some reason), at = 27.0 MAP.  Removing the inlet = tubes from the throttle body gave me 5750 rpm, at 27.3 MAP. 

 <= /p>

I = didn’t think to check the accuracy of the EM-2 MAP display.  I had a picture of my EM-2 when it was the only thing = on, and it read 30.0.  That = struck me as odd that it would be exactly 30, then I realized that it gets = it’s MAP from the EC-2, which was not on.  = I’ve still got to verify this is correct, but bet that it = is.<= /p>

 <= /p>

So, what does this leave me with.  = First, I’m not getting the 6200 static rpm that I think = Tracy reported with his (still unverified) 13B setup.  On the other hand, I must be making considerably more = HP than before, because the temps are climbing at an alarming rate, and nothing has been changed on the cooling system, aside from = losing the EWP, which has no effect on oil of course.  There is a possibility that my prop is larger in some = way than Tracy’s, though = that’s a long shot.  <= /p>

 <= /p>

If = the MAP readings are correct on the EM-2, I’m losing about 3 inches of MAP = in the throttle body alone.  My = ports are on the engine side of the throttle body, which is only about 4 inches long.  The throttle body = is the same ID as the intake runners, so am I losing 3 inches of MAP every 4 = inches of intake runner.  This is = depressing, though as always, there's significant room for improvement.  = <= /p>

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