X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:11:43 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5030007 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:34:48 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.243; envelope-from=j.hafen@comcast.net Received: from omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id zSUc1g0021smiN4ADTaAqr; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:34:10 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.5] ([24.17.111.171]) by omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id zTb11g0123hvfg88gTb2Lz; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:35:03 +0000 From: John Hafen Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-69--176435266 Subject: IVP's, Evolutions, the Past, and the Future X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:34:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <41CF7C6C-35C6-44EE-8F8D-0943A85EC81A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-69--176435266 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Lancair's focus on the Evolution doesn't guarantee the company's = financial viability or demonstrate that it was the "right" thing to go. = Bringing a new plane to market requires a long lead time, which requires = lots of cash. Markets and market conditions change. =20 IVP wannabes such as the Cirrus and Columbia (now Cessna) are wonderful = planes and are selling. They cost a couple hundred grand more than the = IVP and don't offer retractable gear or pressurization. And IVP's are faster. And IVP's are "more beautifuler." The prettiest thing on any ramp is a = IVP. Hearing the throaty roar of the 550TSIO on take-off brings a tear = to the eye. I hope Lancair did sufficient market research before betting the farm on = the Evolution. The IVP is dead. Long live the IVP. John Hafen IVP 413AJ 300+ On Jun 23, 2011, at 4:42 AM, Jay Phillips wrote: (I want a turn at beating that deceased equine=85) =20 Regarding availability and future production of IV kits=85 =20 What Lancair has told me: the focus on the Evolution, and the decreasing = market for non-turbine aircraft in this price-performance area, and the = IV molds are old and tired, led them to halt production of the IV. They = have (according to what they told me at Sun-N-Fun and according to their = web site) one (and only one) IV-P kit in inventory. I have no knowledge = regarding spare parts inventory. =20 Jay Phillips Legacy owner and wanna-be IV-P owner =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Jack Morgan Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:56 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for = Lancair 4p =20 On Jun 21, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Lancair Mailing List wrote: From: John Hafen Date: June 20, 2011 8:00:14 AM EDT To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex = Generators for Lancair 4p Have you ever wondered why they don't make the IVP's any more? =20 John Hafen =20 =20 =20 I thought it was time to put a few facts into this dead horse = fest....... =20 There are more than 600 IV/IV P kits sold and Lancair is maintaining the = molds and a complete parts inventory so they can support this large = fleet. You can buy a piston IV kit from stock if you like for now. =20 The current focus at Lancair is the Evolution for the up market and the = various fixed gear derivates of the IV for the market below the very = high end. The IV remains the best speed/efficiency piston aircraft = available but the market for it is very limited as the new aircraft = buyers in this class are settling on turbine solutions which they can = afford. This leaves the IV with a very small market. Lancair will = continue to build piston IV's for those who want them but the low volume = will soon require a higher price which will further shrink the market. = They are not investing in training for their sales/marketing team on the = IV so there is not much mention of it from the sales types. =20 The entire speed envelope of the IV remains among the most impressive = engineering accomplishments to date. Particularly impressive is the = stall speed achieved compared to the high cruise cruise speed. Not = surprising, the sink rate increases rapidly as the speed is bled off as = expected for an aircraft of this speed performance. The high sink sets = in well above stall speed which is not a trait GA pilots are used to. = Once the IV pilot understands this condition the airplane handles very = honestly. This is stock and trade for airline pilots as this high sink = characteristic is inherent in the large airliners they fly..... with an = outstanding safety record. The whole thrust of LOBO and the IV drivers = is to urge everyone who flies a IV to get the training required to = safely fly this excellent airplane. =20 Enough facts.... now for opinion. =20 Anyone who is not comfortable flying an airplane in the IV's class = should not do it. It is not similar to the many slower production = certified/less efficient aircraft around. Those of us who are willing to = understand the trade offs involved sincerely hope that the low speed = characteristics typical of production aircraft are not imposed upon = aircraft like the IV... or airliners for that matter. =20 Flying is only safe for those who invest the time to understand the = entire envelope of the aircraft they fly. Unless one has lots of = altitude AND has many hours of aerobatics, the low speed envelope of the = IV should be limited to the onset of stall. The accident rate for the IV = correlates well with the time in type so if you get one...... get the = training. =20 Jack Morgan =20 =20 =20 =20 --Apple-Mail-69--176435266 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Lancair's focus on the Evolution doesn't guarantee = the company's financial viability or demonstrate that it was the "right" = thing to go.  Bringing a new plane to market requires a long lead = time, which requires lots of cash.  Markets and market conditions = change.  

IVP wannabes such as the Cirrus and = Columbia (now Cessna) are wonderful planes and are selling.  They = cost a couple hundred grand more than the IVP and don't offer = retractable gear or pressurization.

And IVP's = are faster.

And IVP's are "more beautifuler." =  The prettiest thing on any ramp is a IVP.  Hearing the = throaty roar of the 550TSIO on take-off  brings a tear to the = eye.

I hope Lancair did sufficient market = research before betting the farm on the = Evolution.

The IVP is dead.  Long live the = IVP.

John Hafen
IVP 413AJ = 300+


On Jun 23, 2011, at 4:42 AM, = Jay Phillips wrote:

(I want a turn at = beating that deceased equine=85)
What = Lancair has told me: the focus on the Evolution, and the decreasing = market for non-turbine aircraft in this price-performance area, and the = IV molds are old and tired, led them to halt production of the IV. They = have (according to what they told me at Sun-N-Fun and according to their web site) one (and only = one) IV-P kit in inventory. I have no knowledge regarding spare parts = inventory.
Jay = Phillips
From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jack = Morgan
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 = 3:56 PM
To:  [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, = Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair = 4p
On Jun 21, 2011, at 6:00 = AM, Lancair Mailing List wrote:


The entire = speed envelope of the IV remains among the most impressive engineering = accomplishments to date. Particularly impressive is the stall speed = achieved compared to the high cruise cruise speed. Not surprising, the = sink rate increases rapidly as the speed is bled off as expected for an = aircraft of this speed performance. The high sink sets in well above = stall speed which is not a trait GA pilots are used to. Once the IV = pilot understands this condition the airplane handles very honestly. = This is stock and trade for airline pilots as this high sink = characteristic is inherent in the large airliners they fly..... with an = outstanding safety record. The whole thrust of LOBO and the IV drivers = is to urge everyone who flies a IV to get the training required to = safely fly this excellent airplane.