X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 07:42:53 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtpauth05.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net ([64.202.165.99] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5029292 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:43:24 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.202.165.99; envelope-from=jayph@fastairplane.net Received: (qmail 25547 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2011 23:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (174.126.244.48) by smtpauth05.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.99) with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2011 23:42:48 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Jay Phillips" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:42:58 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <008d01cc3136$1e8c54d0$5ba4fe70$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008E_01CC30FB.722D7CD0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcwxL5woVgR/ef2qQuOuDvQEh/IJQwABYwuw Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CC30FB.722D7CD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (I want a turn at beating that deceased equine.) Regarding availability and future production of IV kits. What Lancair has told me: the focus on the Evolution, and the decreasing market for non-turbine aircraft in this price-performance area, and the IV molds are old and tired, led them to halt production of the IV. They have (according to what they told me at Sun-N-Fun and according to their web site) one (and only one) IV-P kit in inventory. I have no knowledge regarding spare parts inventory. Jay Phillips Legacy owner and wanna-be IV-P owner From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jack Morgan Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:56 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p On Jun 21, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Lancair Mailing List wrote: From: John Hafen Date: June 20, 2011 8:00:14 AM EDT To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p Have you ever wondered why they don't make the IVP's any more? John Hafen I thought it was time to put a few facts into this dead horse fest....... There are more than 600 IV/IV P kits sold and Lancair is maintaining the molds and a complete parts inventory so they can support this large fleet. You can buy a piston IV kit from stock if you like for now. The current focus at Lancair is the Evolution for the up market and the various fixed gear derivates of the IV for the market below the very high end. The IV remains the best speed/efficiency piston aircraft available but the market for it is very limited as the new aircraft buyers in this class are settling on turbine solutions which they can afford. This leaves the IV with a very small market. Lancair will continue to build piston IV's for those who want them but the low volume will soon require a higher price which will further shrink the market. They are not investing in training for their sales/marketing team on the IV so there is not much mention of it from the sales types. The entire speed envelope of the IV remains among the most impressive engineering accomplishments to date. Particularly impressive is the stall speed achieved compared to the high cruise cruise speed. Not surprising, the sink rate increases rapidly as the speed is bled off as expected for an aircraft of this speed performance. The high sink sets in well above stall speed which is not a trait GA pilots are used to. Once the IV pilot understands this condition the airplane handles very honestly. This is stock and trade for airline pilots as this high sink characteristic is inherent in the large airliners they fly..... with an outstanding safety record. The whole thrust of LOBO and the IV drivers is to urge everyone who flies a IV to get the training required to safely fly this excellent airplane. Enough facts.... now for opinion. Anyone who is not comfortable flying an airplane in the IV's class should not do it. It is not similar to the many slower production certified/less efficient aircraft around. Those of us who are willing to understand the trade offs involved sincerely hope that the low speed characteristics typical of production aircraft are not imposed upon aircraft like the IV... or airliners for that matter. Flying is only safe for those who invest the time to understand the entire envelope of the aircraft they fly. Unless one has lots of altitude AND has many hours of aerobatics, the low speed envelope of the IV should be limited to the onset of stall. The accident rate for the IV correlates well with the time in type so if you get one...... get the training. Jack Morgan ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CC30FB.722D7CD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

(I want a turn at beating that deceased = equine…)

 

Regarding availability and future production of IV kits… =

 

What Lancair has told me: the focus on the Evolution, and the = decreasing market for non-turbine aircraft in this price-performance = area, and the IV molds are old and tired, led them to halt production of = the IV. They have (according to what they told me at Sun-N-Fun and = according to their web site) one (and only one) IV-P kit in inventory. I = have no knowledge regarding spare parts = inventory.

 

Jay Phillips

Legacy owner and wanna-be IV-P owner

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Jack Morgan
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:56 = PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair = 4p

 



On Jun 21, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Lancair Mailing List = wrote:




From: John = Hafen <j.hafen@comcast.net>

Date: June 20, = 2011 8:00:14 AM EDT

Subject: Re: = [LML] Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for = Lancair 4p



<= span class=3Dapple-style-span>Have you ever wondered why they don't make = the IVP's any more?

 

John = Hafen

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

 

I = thought it was time to put a few facts into this dead horse = fest.......

 

There are more than 600 IV/IV P kits sold and Lancair = is maintaining the molds and a complete parts inventory so they can = support this large fleet. You can buy a piston IV kit from stock if you = like for now.

 

The current focus at Lancair is the Evolution for the = up market and the various fixed gear derivates of the IV for the market = below the very high end. The IV remains the best speed/efficiency piston = aircraft available but the market for it is very limited as the new = aircraft buyers in this class are settling on turbine solutions which = they can afford. This leaves the IV with a very small market. Lancair = will continue to build piston IV's for those who want them but the low = volume will soon require a higher price which will further shrink the = market. They are not investing in training for their sales/marketing = team on the IV so there is not much mention of it from the sales = types.

 

The entire speed envelope of the IV remains among the = most impressive engineering accomplishments to date. Particularly = impressive is the stall speed achieved compared to the high cruise = cruise speed. Not surprising, the sink rate increases rapidly as the = speed is bled off as expected for an aircraft of this speed performance. = The high sink sets in well above stall speed which is not a trait GA = pilots are used to. Once the IV pilot understands this condition the = airplane handles very honestly. This is stock and trade for airline = pilots as this high sink characteristic is inherent in the large = airliners they fly..... with an outstanding safety record. The whole = thrust of LOBO and the IV drivers is to urge everyone who flies a IV to = get the training required to safely fly this excellent = airplane.

 

Enough facts.... now for = opinion.

 

Anyone who is not comfortable flying an airplane in = the IV's class should not do it. It is not similar to the many slower = production certified/less efficient aircraft around. Those of us who are = willing to understand the trade offs involved sincerely hope that the = low speed characteristics typical of production aircraft are not imposed = upon aircraft like the IV... or airliners for that = matter.

 

Flying is only safe for those who invest the time to = understand the entire envelope of the aircraft they fly. Unless one has = lots of altitude AND has many hours of aerobatics, the low speed = envelope of the IV should be limited to the onset of stall. The accident = rate for the IV correlates well with the time in type so if you get = one...... get the training.

 

Jack Morgan

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CC30FB.722D7CD0--