X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:00:14 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5025490 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:35:01 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.97; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p5K0YP23002542 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:34:25 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.1144.21f3f81 (55715) for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m27.mail.aol.com (magic-m27.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.200]) by cia-md01.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD016-d9a34dfe958f2a1; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:34:23 -0400 From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <248b6.3a95aeeb.3b2fef8f@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:34:23 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for L... X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_248b6.3a95aeeb.3b2fef8f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-AOL-IP: 24.15.17.119 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_248b6.3a95aeeb.3b2fef8f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Approach to stall is not Stall. In a message dated 6/19/2011 6:56:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, hjjohnson@sasktel.net writes: Grayhawk, I've got my own opinion of topic but it's been beat enough that I heard PETA is looking into this 'dead horse'.. I will correct one thing however, in the high performance world you still have to demonstrate approach to stall and recovery. I'm flying a Corporate Jet A burner and have done approach to stalls in the Sim AND the actualy a/c. Infact I have to do it every 6months. Fwiw Jarrett Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Sky2high@aol.com Date: Sunday, June 19, 2011 9:30 am Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lanca... > Wolfgang, > > It is not disturbing. Lancairs demand respect. High performance > sometimes requires a tradeoff in low speed controlability. Every > amateur built has > different flight characteristics (actually spam cans may differ > somewhat > also). High performance jets don't require stall training > either. > > Stalls should be avoided because slick airplanes speed response is > very > quick. These airplanes generally don't stall in cruise - only in > the slow > flight regime around the stinking airport. Why drag these in > during approach > and close to stall when turbulence, microbursts or sudden wind > shifts > (shear) leave you in the lurch. If it goes wrong, it goes wrong > very fast. It > is the uninformed pilot that can lose control because of slow > speed > maneuvering that has led the way to distressing accident stats. > > It is always interesting to look at the speed range of standard > aircraft. > Most span cans have a minimal range. Lancairs and their ilk have > a rather > broad range (max cruise to landing) and, as such, require > compromises. I > like to fly at max speeds and am willing to respect the > limitations at > lower speeds. This ain't no Cub (or LSA). > > Grayhawk > > In a message dated 6/18/2011 7:34:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > Wolfgang@MiCom.net writes: > > Is it just me or does anyone else find it just a bit disturbing > that the > Lancairs have such "fearsome" stall characteristics ? > > Wolfgang > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: _Sky2high@aol.com_ (Sky2high@aol.com) > To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (lml@lancaironline.net) > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:46 PM > Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex > Generators for > Lancair 4p > > > Bruce, > > Au contraire, mon ami...... > > The Advanced Systems AOA does not require stalling the aircraft. > Read for > theory and calibration: > _http://www.advanced-flight- > systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20rev4.pdf_ > (http://www.advanced-flight- > systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20rev4.pdf) > > Grayhawk > > > In a message dated 6/17/2011 12:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > _BGray@glasair.org_ (BGray@glasair.org) writes: > > > Every single AOA I know of requires you to stall the aircraft to > calibrate > the AOA. > > Bruce > WWW.Glasair.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Lancair Mailing List [lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of > Bob > Rickard > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:24 PM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators > for Lancair > 4p > > One of the main reasons all of us IV-P owners have a hell of a > time > getting insurance for our airplanes is because too many guys > "explored" the stall > characteristics of their airplane (and for many it was their last > flight). > I fly another airplane that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees > AOA, and > have a good bit of time as an operational test pilot, but I will > never stall > my IV-P intentionally. Or even get close. Like Colyn and John, > I'm 120 on > downwind, 110 at the base turn and 100 on final until the runway > is > assured. Unless we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL, a stall > will probably be > fatal for any of us. Please don't be the next one to prove this > point ! > > > > Bob Rickard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_248b6.3a95aeeb.3b2fef8f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Approach to stall is not Stall.
 
In a message dated 6/19/2011 6:56:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 hjjohnson@sasktel.net writes:

Grayhawk, I've got my own opinion of topic but it's been beat enough= that I=20 heard PETA is looking into this 'dead horse'..  I will correct one= thing=20 however, in the high performance world you still have to demonstrate app= roach=20 to stall and recovery. I'm flying a Corporate Jet A burner and have done= =20 approach to stalls in the Sim AND the actualy a/c.  Infact I have= to do=20 it every 6months.

Fwiw

Jarrett Johnson 


----- Original Message -----=20

From: Sky2high@aol.com=20

Date: Sunday, June 19, 2011 9:30 am=20

Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs,= =20 Vortex Generators for Lanca...=20

> Wolfgang,
>
> It is not disturbing.  Lanc= airs=20 demand respect.  High performance 
> sometimes requires= a=20 tradeoff in low speed controlability.  Every
> amateur = built=20 has
> different flight characteristics (actually spam cans may=20 differ 
> somewhat
> also).  High performance je= ts=20 don't require stall training 
> either. 
>
&= gt;=20 Stalls should be avoided because slick airplanes speed response is
&= gt;=20 very 
> quick.  These airplanes generally don't stall= in=20 cruise - only in
> the  slow
> flight regime around= the=20 stinking airport.  Why drag these in
> during  approach= =20
> and close to stall when turbulence, microbursts or sudden wind&= nbsp;=20
> shifts
> (shear) leave you in the lurch.  If it goe= s=20 wrong, it goes  wrong
> very fast.  It
> is the= =20 uninformed pilot that can lose control  because of slow
> sp= eed=20
> maneuvering that has led the way to distressing  accident= stats.=20
>
> It is always interesting to look at the speed range of= =20 standard 
> aircraft. 
> Most span cans have a= minimal=20 range.  Lancairs and their  ilk have
> a rather
>= ;=20 broad range (max cruise to landing) and, as such, require 
>= =20 compromises.  I
> like to fly at max speeds and am willing= to=20 respect  the
> limitations at
> lower speeds. = This=20 ain't no Cub (or LSA).
>
> Grayhawk 
>
>= ; In a=20 message dated 6/18/2011 7:34:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
&g= t;=20 Wolfgang@MiCom.net writes:
>
> Is it just me or does anyon= e else=20 find it just a bit disturbing
> that the 
> Lancairs= have=20 such "fearsome" stall characteristics ?
>
> Wolfgang
&= gt;=20
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: =20 _Sky2high@aol.com_ (Sky2high@aol.com) 
> To:=20 _lml@lancaironline.net_ (lml@lancaironline.net) 
> Sent: Fri= day,=20 June 17, 2011 1:46  PM
> Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall=20 Speeds,  Wing Cuffs, Vortex
> Generators for
> Lancai= r 4p=20
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> Au contraire, mon=20 ami......
>
> The Advanced Systems AOA does not require st= alling=20 the aircraft.  
> Read for
> theory and calibrat= ion:=20
> _http://www.advanced-flight-
>=20 systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20rev4.pdf_
>=20 (http://www.advanced-flight-
>=20 systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20rev4.pdf)
>
>= ;=20 Grayhawk
>
>
> In a message dated 6/17/2011 12:07:4= 7 P.M.=20 Central Daylight Time,
> _BGray@glasair.org_ (BGray@glasair.org)&= nbsp;=20 writes:
>
>
> Every single AOA  I know of requ= ires=20 you to stall the aircraft to
> calibrate
> the  AOA.= =20
>
> Bruce
> WWW.Glasair.org 
>=20 -----Original  Message-----
> From:  Lancair Mailing Li= st=20 [lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
> Bob
> Rickard
&= gt;=20 Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:24  PM
> To: =20 lml@lancaironline.net
> Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing&nbs= p;=20 Cuffs, Vortex Generators
> for Lancair
> 4p
>
&= gt;=20 One of the main  reasons all of us IV-P owners have a hell of a >=20 time
> getting insurance for  our airplanes is because too= many=20 guys
> "explored" the stall
> characteristics of their air= plane=20 (and for many it was their last
> flight).
> I fly another= =20 airplane that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees
> AOA,  and= =20
> have a good bit of time as an operational test pilot, but I wil= l=20
> never  stall
> my IV-P intentionally.  Or even= get=20 close.  Like Colyn and  John,
> I'm 120 on
> dow= nwind,=20 110 at the base turn and 100 on final until the  runway
> is= =20
> assured.   Unless we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL= ,=20 a  stall
> will probably be
> fatal for any of us.&nb= sp;=20 Please don't be the next  one to prove this
> point !
&g= t;=20
>
>
> Bob Rickard
>
>
>
&g= t;=20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>= =20
>
>=20 

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