X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:56:11 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5025387 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:28:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=8mDY8c80ZOa76EOwICuS+E2YRQjxDgO9xqUnRMONc7w= c=1 sm=0 a=pMa8p94ZHMUA:10 a=zTVDa7HKqxcA:10 a=35Tvjzvas7lBNn8+H1IYgA==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=dB0YvX0OnnyIk-VoJAwA:9 a=EjbGfEGHbLYNyJlNxmsA:7 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=CVU0O5Kb7MsA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=C72yMXBcz-ykzLtP:21 a=gFXW1hhQ2Dw7m0PA:21 a=5Up8faWwAAAA:8 a=SE00nj1XUWTUjAtIZAoA:9 a=F-N4TUbVYFR6s2vQDf0A:7 a=RA4776fQhdsA:10 a=v6MMM96S_sUA:10 a=35Tvjzvas7lBNn8+H1IYgA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 69.205.15.200 Received: from [69.205.15.200] ([69.205.15.200:55783] helo=WilliamHP) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D2/55-00666-1CB5EFD4; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:27:46 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <3BEAAFA8F53940D1879D7CB2FB3062D5@WilliamHP> From: "Bill Wade" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part 2 X-Original-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:27:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01CC2E9D.D12CD060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3508.1109 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3508.1109 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01CC2E9D.D12CD060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Colyn- The seal is inserted into the center of the blue anodized = part shown in the first picture, Part 2. There=92s an opening toward the = inside of the box and the shaft travels in a rectangular cutout. I realize my style has a larger surface area that might create more = friction under pressure. I=92ll try it and see if it binds- if so I = could probably remove arcs of material on the sides without losing = effectiveness. The shaft travels quite a bit back and forth-there=92s = not much margin for locating the plate assembly so the seal won=92t hit = the back of the interior pocket in one direction and won=92t hit the = back of the fiberglass box in the other direction. Time will tell. =96Bill Wade From: Colyn Case=20 Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:30 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part 2 Bill,=20 I can't tell from your pics exactly where you put the seal. But I can = tell you that having the seal in the vertical push rod in the box binds = under pressure in my plane. ....thinking about replacing that with a bellows. I don't like the = factory bellows arrangement because you can't get at it with the wings = on. I would be interested in what other IVP owner's experience has been with = this. Colyn On Jun 18, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Bill Wade wrote: Hi Colyn- I hadn=92t thought of that particular aspect. I did use = e-glass rather than carbon so it wouldn=92t be as stiff and might allow = some movement. Perhaps Lancair has a suggestion? :<) The dimensions are = meant as an aid to other builders, not cast in stone. They=92re just = what the CAD program told me or I measured after the fact. I=92ve never dealt with pressurization before and it adds a layer of = complexity that I don=92t always account for. I=92m an airframe mechanic = but not an engineer- my guess would be that the box itself would keep = the bellcrank and torque tube aligned. For the rest there=92s the ball = joints on the rod ends. That=92s why the twist, to keep the rod ends = centered in each bracket for maximum range of movement. Now, if IV-P=92s vary their wing geometry when they pressurize, all = bets are off. One might think the aileron torque tube could be affected as it = spans a longer section of the fuselage and might be compressed to some = extent. It might not hurt to have some flex on one end. -Bill Wade=20 From: Colyn Case=20 Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:15 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part 2 Bill,=20 so when your fuselage puffs out there, what will keep this all lined = up to close tolerance? Colyn On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Bill Wade wrote: Two pictures show aligning the box to locate the forward = pivot/crosstube supports before bonding the boxes in place. It took a = while to puzzle out the instructions- page 17-22 shows the forward = torque tube tab upwards. It=92s not that way on the ones I got. The = thing I worried about was to make sure there was clearance from the NG = well housing and that the crosstube would be high enough for leg room. = The third picture shows how I went about that. I used Clark foam to fill the lower gap, then bonded the box with = Hysol followed by 2 E-glass BID on each side. I gather the bottom needs = to be free for movement during pressurization but I did use a couple of = BID to make a collar through the aileron pushrod hole. My intent is to = make sure the box couldn=92t debond in that area and it=92d remain = sealed during pressurization. The hole needs to be opened out to allow = for the extra material. Also attach the aileron pushrods to the lower = bellcrank and check for clearance through the range of motion to get the = hole sized. When all was done I discovered the wing pushrods aren=92t = perpendicular to the aileron torque tube. The lower bellcrank and = intermediate rod end had to be rotated and the shaft holes redrilled = until the bellcrank aligned with the aileron rod end bearing. The = forward hole ended up 0.20 inches closer to the flange face than the aft = one. The phenolic covers mistakes. The holes ended up roughly 0.525 and = 0.555 for the forward, 0.726 and 0.750 for the aft ones; measured from = the face of the box flange. I realize this is more than you asked for and probably more than = anyone else wanted to read but I hope it helps. -Bill Wade <6-12-09 012.JPG><015.JPG>-- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01CC2E9D.D12CD060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Colyn-
           &n= bsp;  =20 The seal is inserted into the center of the blue anodized part shown in = the=20 first picture, Part 2. There=92s an opening toward the inside of the box = and the=20 shaft travels in a rectangular cutout.
 
  I realize my style has a larger surface area that might = create more=20 friction under pressure. I=92ll try it and see if it binds- if so I = could probably=20 remove arcs of material on the sides without losing effectiveness. The = shaft=20 travels quite a bit back and forth-there=92s not much margin for = locating the=20 plate assembly so the seal won=92t hit the back of the interior pocket = in one=20 direction and won=92t hit the back of the fiberglass box in the other=20 direction.
 
  Time will tell. =96Bill Wade
 
From: Colyn Case
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:30 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part = 2
 
Bill,=20

I can't tell from your pics exactly where you = put the=20 seal.   But I can tell you that having the seal in the = vertical push=20 rod in the box binds under pressure in my plane.
....thinking about replacing that with a=20 bellows.   I don't like the factory bellows arrangement = because you=20 can't get at it with the wings on.

I would be interested in what other IVP owner's = experience has been with this.

Colyn
 
On Jun 18, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Bill Wade wrote:
Hi Colyn-
=
           &n= bsp;  =20 I hadn=92t thought of that particular aspect. I did use e-glass rather = than=20 carbon so it wouldn=92t be as stiff and might allow some movement. = Perhaps=20 Lancair has a suggestion? :<) The dimensions are meant as an aid to = other=20 builders, not cast in stone. They=92re just what the CAD program told = me or I=20 measured after the fact.
 
I=92ve never dealt with pressurization before and it adds a layer = of=20 complexity that I don=92t always account for. I=92m an airframe = mechanic but not=20 an engineer- my guess would be that the box itself would keep the = bellcrank=20 and torque tube aligned. For the rest there=92s the ball joints on the = rod ends.=20 That=92s why the twist, to keep the rod ends centered in each bracket = for=20 maximum range of movement.
 
  Now, if IV-P=92s vary their wing geometry when they = pressurize, all=20 bets are off.
 
  One might think the aileron torque tube could be affected = as it=20 spans a longer section of the fuselage and might be compressed to some = extent.=20 It might not hurt to have some flex on one end.  -Bill Wade =
 
From: Colyn Case
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:15 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part=20 2
 
Bill,=20
 
so when your fuselage puffs out there, what will keep this all = lined up=20 to close tolerance?
 
Colyn
 
On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Bill Wade wrote:
  Two pictures show aligning the box to locate the forward = pivot/crosstube supports before bonding the boxes in place. It took = a while=20 to puzzle out the instructions- page 17-22 shows the forward torque = tube tab=20 upwards. It=92s not that way on the ones I got. The thing I worried = about was=20 to make sure there was clearance from the NG well housing and that = the=20 crosstube would be high enough for leg room. The third picture shows = how I=20 went about that.
 
  I used Clark foam to fill the lower gap, then bonded the = box=20 with Hysol followed by 2 E-glass BID on each side. I gather the = bottom needs=20 to be free for movement during pressurization but I did use a couple = of BID=20 to make a collar through the aileron pushrod hole. My intent is to = make sure=20 the box couldn=92t debond in that area and it=92d remain sealed = during=20 pressurization. The hole needs to be opened out to allow for the = extra=20 material. Also attach the aileron pushrods to the lower bellcrank = and check=20 for clearance through the range of motion to get the hole = sized.
 
When all was done I discovered the wing pushrods aren=92t = perpendicular=20 to the aileron torque tube. The lower bellcrank and intermediate rod = end had=20 to be rotated and the shaft holes redrilled until the bellcrank = aligned with=20 the aileron rod end bearing. The forward hole ended up 0.20 inches = closer to=20 the flange face than the aft one. The phenolic covers mistakes. The = holes=20 ended up roughly 0.525 and 0.555 for the forward, 0.726 and 0.750 = for the=20 aft ones; measured from the face of the box flange.
 
  I realize this is more than you asked for and probably = more than=20 anyone else wanted to read but I hope it helps. -Bill=20 Wade
<Aileron Box=20 001.JPG><6-12-09 = 012.JPG><Crosstube=20 003.JPG><015.JPG>--
For archives and = unsub=20 http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 
 
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