X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5024912 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:12:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.145; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p5J1BP1B020837 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:11:25 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.1101.21631a3 (43958) for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m27.mail.aol.com (magic-m27.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.200]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD017-abb64dfd4cbcd5; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:11:24 -0400 From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:11:24 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Fw: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lanca... X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d16e.f039d36.3b2ea6bc_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-AOL-IP: 24.15.17.119 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_d16e.f039d36.3b2ea6bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wolfgang, It is not disturbing. Lancairs demand respect. High performance sometimes requires a tradeoff in low speed controlability. Every amateur built has different flight characteristics (actually spam cans may differ somewhat also). High performance jets don't require stall training either. Stalls should be avoided because slick airplanes speed response is very quick. These airplanes generally don't stall in cruise - only in the slow flight regime around the stinking airport. Why drag these in during approach and close to stall when turbulence, microbursts or sudden wind shifts (shear) leave you in the lurch. If it goes wrong, it goes wrong very fast. It is the uninformed pilot that can lose control because of slow speed maneuvering that has led the way to distressing accident stats. It is always interesting to look at the speed range of standard aircraft. Most span cans have a minimal range. Lancairs and their ilk have a rather broad range (max cruise to landing) and, as such, require compromises. I like to fly at max speeds and am willing to respect the limitations at lower speeds. This ain't no Cub (or LSA). Grayhawk In a message dated 6/18/2011 7:34:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Wolfgang@MiCom.net writes: Is it just me or does anyone else find it just a bit disturbing that the Lancairs have such "fearsome" stall characteristics ? Wolfgang ----- Original Message ----- From: _Sky2high@aol.com_ (mailto:Sky2high@aol.com) To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p Bruce, Au contraire, mon ami...... The Advanced Systems AOA does not require stalling the aircraft. Read for theory and calibration: _http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20re v4.pdf_ (http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20rev4.pdf) Grayhawk In a message dated 6/17/2011 12:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _BGray@glasair.org_ (mailto:BGray@glasair.org) writes: Every single AOA I know of requires you to stall the aircraft to calibrate the AOA. Bruce WWW.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bob Rickard Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:24 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p One of the main reasons all of us IV-P owners have a hell of a time getting insurance for our airplanes is because too many guys "explored" the stall characteristics of their airplane (and for many it was their last flight). I fly another airplane that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees AOA, and have a good bit of time as an operational test pilot, but I will never stall my IV-P intentionally. Or even get close. Like Colyn and John, I'm 120 on downwind, 110 at the base turn and 100 on final until the runway is assured. Unless we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL, a stall will probably be fatal for any of us. Please don't be the next one to prove this point ! Bob Rickard --part1_d16e.f039d36.3b2ea6bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wolfgang,
 
It is not disturbing.  Lancairs demand respect.  High perfo= rmance=20 sometimes requires a tradeoff in low speed controlability.  Every ama= teur=20 built has different flight characteristics (actually spam cans may differ= =20 somewhat also).  High performance jets don't require stall training= =20 either. 
 
Stalls should be avoided because slick airplanes speed response is ve= ry=20 quick.  These airplanes generally don't stall in cruise - only= in the=20 slow flight regime around the stinking airport.  Why drag these in du= ring=20 approach and close to stall when turbulence, microbursts or sudden wi= nd=20 shifts (shear) leave you in the lurch.  If it goes wrong, it goe= s=20 wrong very fast.  It is the uninformed pilot that can lose contr= ol=20 because of slow speed maneuvering that has led the way to distressing= =20 accident stats.
 
It is always interesting to look at the speed range of standard=20 aircraft.  Most span cans have a minimal range.  Lancairs and th= eir=20 ilk have a rather broad range (max cruise to landing) and, as such, requir= e=20 compromises.  I like to fly at max speeds and am willing to resp= ect=20 the limitations at lower speeds.  This ain't no Cub (or LSA).
 
Grayhawk  
 
In a message dated 6/18/2011 7:34:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 Wolfgang@MiCom.net writes:
Is it just me or does anyone else find it just a bit disturbing tha= t the=20 Lancairs have such "fearsome" stall characteristics ?
 
Wolfgang
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:4= 6=20 PM
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Sp= eeds,=20 Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p

Bruce,
 
Au contraire, mon ami......
 
The Advanced Systems AOA does not require stalling the aircraft.&= nbsp;=20 Read for theory and calibration:
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 6/17/2011 12:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,= BGray@glasair.org writes:

Every= single AOA=20 I know of requires you to stall the aircraft to calibrate the=20 AOA.

&n= bsp;

Bruce
WWW.= Glasair.org=20

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bob Rickard
Sent: Thursday, June 16,= 2011 3:24=20 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing=20 Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair=20 4p

 

One of the= main=20 reasons all of us IV-P owners have a hell of a time getting insuranc= e for=20 our airplanes is because too many guys "explored" the stall=20 characteristics of their airplane (and for many it was their last fl= ight).=20   I fly another airplane that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees= AOA,=20 and have a good bit of time as an operational test pilot, but I will= never=20 stall my IV-P intentionally.  Or even get close.  Like Col= yn and=20 John, I'm 120 on downwind, 110 at the base turn and 100 on final unt= il the=20 runway is assured.   Unless we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL= , a=20 stall will probably be fatal for any of us.  Please don't be th= e next=20 one to prove this point !

 

Bob Rick= ard