X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.63] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5024957 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:52:48 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.63; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=OXD8olUsodiTc5vew62THfuKeVtdeqeOpDfFjlEkqJQIKNHuI8rplex36UcalkLT; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.201.52.88] (helo=[10.71.1.21]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1QY87S-0006jY-Eu for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:52:14 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-669--567747854 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part 2 X-Original-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 19:52:13 -0700 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940e697dc4c92b96d8644b268eb8d1a3411350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.201.52.88 --Apple-Mail-669--567747854 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Bill, I can't tell from your pics exactly where you put the seal. But I can = tell you that having the seal in the vertical push rod in the box binds = under pressure in my plane. ....thinking about replacing that with a bellows. I don't like the = factory bellows arrangement because you can't get at it with the wings = on. I would be interested in what other IVP owner's experience has been with = this. Colyn On Jun 18, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Bill Wade wrote: > Hi Colyn- > I hadn=92t thought of that particular aspect. I did use = e-glass rather than carbon so it wouldn=92t be as stiff and might allow = some movement. Perhaps Lancair has a suggestion? :<) The dimensions are = meant as an aid to other builders, not cast in stone. They=92re just = what the CAD program told me or I measured after the fact. > =20 > I=92ve never dealt with pressurization before and it adds a layer of = complexity that I don=92t always account for. I=92m an airframe mechanic = but not an engineer- my guess would be that the box itself would keep = the bellcrank and torque tube aligned. For the rest there=92s the ball = joints on the rod ends. That=92s why the twist, to keep the rod ends = centered in each bracket for maximum range of movement. > =20 > Now, if IV-P=92s vary their wing geometry when they pressurize, all = bets are off. > =20 > One might think the aileron torque tube could be affected as it = spans a longer section of the fuselage and might be compressed to some = extent. It might not hurt to have some flex on one end. -Bill Wade > =20 > From: Colyn Case > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:15 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part 2 > =20 > Bill, > =20 > so when your fuselage puffs out there, what will keep this all lined = up to close tolerance? > =20 > Colyn > =20 > On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Bill Wade wrote: >=20 >> Two pictures show aligning the box to locate the forward = pivot/crosstube supports before bonding the boxes in place. It took a = while to puzzle out the instructions- page 17-22 shows the forward = torque tube tab upwards. It=92s not that way on the ones I got. The = thing I worried about was to make sure there was clearance from the NG = well housing and that the crosstube would be high enough for leg room. = The third picture shows how I went about that. >> =20 >> I used Clark foam to fill the lower gap, then bonded the box with = Hysol followed by 2 E-glass BID on each side. I gather the bottom needs = to be free for movement during pressurization but I did use a couple of = BID to make a collar through the aileron pushrod hole. My intent is to = make sure the box couldn=92t debond in that area and it=92d remain = sealed during pressurization. The hole needs to be opened out to allow = for the extra material. Also attach the aileron pushrods to the lower = bellcrank and check for clearance through the range of motion to get the = hole sized. >> =20 >> When all was done I discovered the wing pushrods aren=92t = perpendicular to the aileron torque tube. The lower bellcrank and = intermediate rod end had to be rotated and the shaft holes redrilled = until the bellcrank aligned with the aileron rod end bearing. The = forward hole ended up 0.20 inches closer to the flange face than the aft = one. The phenolic covers mistakes. The holes ended up roughly 0.525 and = 0.555 for the forward, 0.726 and 0.750 for the aft ones; measured from = the face of the box flange. >> =20 >> I realize this is more than you asked for and probably more than = anyone else wanted to read but I hope it helps. -Bill Wade >> <6-12-09 012.JPG><015.JPG>-- >> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-669--567747854 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Bill,

I can't tell from your pics exactly where you = put the seal.   But I can tell you that having the seal in the = vertical push rod in the box binds under pressure in my = plane.
....thinking about replacing that with a bellows.   I don't = like the factory bellows arrangement because you can't get at it with = the wings on.

I = would be interested in what other IVP owner's experience has been with = this.

Colyn

On Jun 18, 2011, at = 5:32 PM, Bill Wade wrote:

Hi Colyn-
=
           &nb= sp;  =20 I hadn=92t thought of that particular aspect. I did use e-glass rather = than carbon=20 so it wouldn=92t be as stiff and might allow some movement. Perhaps = Lancair has a=20 suggestion? :<) The dimensions are meant as an aid to other builders, = not=20 cast in stone. They=92re just what the CAD program told me or I measured = after the=20 fact.
 
I=92ve never dealt with pressurization before and it adds a layer = of=20 complexity that I don=92t always account for. I=92m an airframe mechanic = but not an=20 engineer- my guess would be that the box itself would keep the bellcrank = and=20 torque tube aligned. For the rest there=92s the ball joints on the rod = ends.=20 That=92s why the twist, to keep the rod ends centered in each bracket = for maximum=20 range of movement.
 
  Now, if IV-P=92s vary their wing geometry when they = pressurize, all=20 bets are off.
 
  One might think the aileron torque tube could be affected as = it=20 spans a longer section of the fuselage and might be compressed to some = extent.=20 It might not hurt to have some flex on one end.  -Bill Wade
 
From: Colyn Case
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:15 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: IV Aileron Pressure Box Part = 2
 
Bill,=20
 
so when your fuselage puffs out there, what will keep this all = lined up to=20 close tolerance?
 
Colyn
 
On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Bill Wade wrote:

  Two pictures show aligning the box to locate the forward=20= pivot/crosstube supports before bonding the boxes in place. It took a = while to=20 puzzle out the instructions- page 17-22 shows the forward torque tube = tab=20 upwards. It=92s not that way on the ones I got. The thing I worried = about was to=20 make sure there was clearance from the NG well housing and that the = crosstube=20 would be high enough for leg room. The third picture shows how I went = about=20 that.
 
  I used Clark foam to fill the lower gap, then bonded the = box with=20 Hysol followed by 2 E-glass BID on each side. I gather the bottom = needs to be=20 free for movement during pressurization but I did use a couple of BID = to make=20 a collar through the aileron pushrod hole. My intent is to make sure = the box=20 couldn=92t debond in that area and it=92d remain sealed during = pressurization. The=20 hole needs to be opened out to allow for the extra material. Also = attach the=20 aileron pushrods to the lower bellcrank and check for clearance = through the=20 range of motion to get the hole sized.
 
When all was done I discovered the wing pushrods aren=92t = perpendicular to=20 the aileron torque tube. The lower bellcrank and intermediate rod end = had to=20 be rotated and the shaft holes redrilled until the bellcrank aligned = with the=20 aileron rod end bearing. The forward hole ended up 0.20 inches closer = to the=20 flange face than the aft one. The phenolic covers mistakes. The holes = ended up=20 roughly 0.525 and 0.555 for the forward, 0.726 and 0.750 for the aft = ones;=20 measured from the face of the box flange.
 
  I realize this is more than you asked for and probably = more than=20 anyone else wanted to read but I hope it helps. -Bill=20 Wade
<Aileron Box=20 001.JPG><6-12-09 = 012.JPG><Crosstube=20 003.JPG><015.JPG>--
For archives and = unsub http://mail.= lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 

= --Apple-Mail-669--567747854--