X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from carbinge.com ([69.5.27.218] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5025258 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:26:11 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.5.27.218; envelope-from=jbarrett@carbinge.com Received: (qmail 11991 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2011 15:25:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; h=X-Originating-IP:Reply-To:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:thread-index:Content-Language; s=default; d=carbinge.com; b=b9BuGeilJU6vWNvCeDCvsxJJfSOsi5gp8cgTGPH5txM52ge56/m6ooa3GDbB/OsESFeYarY1edXAvVm+PU8X6MB9IlIURf6x0HisB8TXGxiX6K3JaWQUvNLuPIJirjzVH7ZH2vLx8Mb9eNExp5dNELryKGUpf3BRBojd/pwirN0=; X-Originating-IP: [66.235.58.63] Reply-To: From: "John Barrett" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p X-Original-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 08:25:29 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <02e701cc2e95$202df7b0$6089e710$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E8_01CC2E5A.73CF1FB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: AcwtucaJjuhI/z17QWGkQTXe6+wIDQA2WlDQ Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02E8_01CC2E5A.73CF1FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Remember that stall warning indicators' value is not that they give you the exact stall speed or that there is some particular need to know within the knot what that indicated speed might be. Rather they are there to provide a warning at an indicated airspeed that provides you with an alert you are slowing to a COMFORTABLE CUSHION ABOVE that stall speed so that you will not get too near stall when you aren't aware and might get bit in the butt. (Redundancy intended.) Test flying to determine approximate stall speed is essential, but after that use your AOA or some reliable method to help you stay away from that envelope in the IVP. This is not IVP flight experience on my part talking but most assuredly it is the culmination of others' experiences (many fatal) that stimulate this post. I've been on the LML since its inception and the reports are enlightening and sobering. My main concern is that many of us get tunnel vision about the accuracy of our choice of AOA indication. The importance of such an indicator is to warn you BEFORE you get close to stall conditions - not to tell you when you're there. By then it's too late to be of any help. John Barrett From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 6:15 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p no they aren't fighters. some just roll off violently. If you are a slimy civilian part time pilot there's at least some chance that you will be surprised and do the wrong thing. I would rather be slimy than dead. I think the issue on the AOA is not that it be precise to the knot but that it reliably gives you a heads up to do something regardless of load and flight attitude. On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Bruce wrote: Good stuff, I have an AOA Pro. The manual states to consult the POH for the stall speed. Do all L4P's stall at the same speed? I know all GIII's don't. The only way to get an accurate stall speed is to do a 1G, straight and level, power off stall. Then you know what to enter in the AOA for your airplane. Or you can use the POH data, but that defeats the purpose of the AOA, you might as well just use the ASI. Common guys, these are not unstable computer controlled fighters. Learn to fly your airplane, learn to fly a stall, especially if you are going to do acrobatics. Bruce WWW.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Sky2high@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:47 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p Bruce, Au contraire, mon ami...... The Advanced Systems AOA does not require stalling the aircraft. Read for theory and calibration: http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20Manual%20rev 4.pdf Grayhawk In a message dated 6/17/2011 12:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, BGray@glasair.org writes: Every single AOA I know of requires you to stall the aircraft to calibrate the AOA. Bruce WWW.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bob Rickard Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:24 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p One of the main reasons all of us IV-P owners have a hell of a time getting insurance for our airplanes is because too many guys "explored" the stall characteristics of their airplane (and for many it was their last flight). I fly another airplane that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees AOA, and have a good bit of time as an operational test pilot, but I will never stall my IV-P intentionally. Or even get close. Like Colyn and John, I'm 120 on downwind, 110 at the base turn and 100 on final until the runway is assured. Unless we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL, a stall will probably be fatal for any of us. Please don't be the next one to prove this point ! Bob Rickard _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3710 - Release Date: 06/17/11 ------=_NextPart_000_02E8_01CC2E5A.73CF1FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Remember that stall warning indicators’ value is not that they = give you the exact stall speed or that there is some particular need to = know within the knot what that indicated speed might be.  Rather = they are there to provide a warning at an indicated airspeed that = provides you with an alert you are slowing to a COMFORTABLE CUSHION = ABOVE  that stall speed so that you will not get too near stall = when you aren’t aware and might get bit in the butt.  = (Redundancy intended.)

 

Test flying to determine approximate stall speed is essential, but = after that use your AOA or some reliable method to help you stay away = from that envelope in the IVP.  This is not IVP flight experience = on my part talking but most assuredly it is the culmination of = others’ experiences (many fatal) that stimulate this post.  = I’ve been on the LML since its  inception and the reports are = enlightening and sobering. 

 

My main concern is that many of us get tunnel vision about the = accuracy of our choice of AOA indication.  The importance of such = an indicator is to warn you BEFORE you get close to stall conditions = – not to tell you  when you’re there.  By then = it’s too late to be of any help. 

 

John Barrett

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Colyn Case
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 6:15 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair = 4p

 

no they = aren't fighters.   some just roll off violently.  If you are a = slimy civilian part time pilot there's at least some chance that you = will be surprised and do the wrong thing.  

I would rather be slimy than = dead.

 

I = think the issue on the AOA is not that it be precise to the knot but = that it reliably gives you a heads up to do something regardless of load = and flight attitude.

 

On = Jun 17, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Bruce wrote:



Go= od stuff, I have an AOA Pro. The manual states to consult the POH for = the stall speed. Do all L4P’s stall at the same speed? I know = all GIII’s don’t.=

&n= bsp;

Th= e only way to get an accurate stall speed is to do a 1G, straight and = level, power off stall. Then you know what to enter in the AOA for your = airplane. Or you can use the POH data, but that defeats the purpose of = the AOA, you might as well just use the = ASI.

&n= bsp;

Co= mmon guys, these are not unstable computer controlled fighters. Learn to = fly your airplane, learn to fly a stall, = especially if you are going to do = acrobatics.

&n= bsp;

-----Origina= l Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Sky2high@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:47 = PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Su= bject: [LML] Re: = Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair = 4p

 

B= ruce,

&= nbsp;

A= u contraire, mon ami......

&= nbsp;

T= he Advanced Systems AOA does not require stalling the aircraft.  = Read for theory and = calibration:

<= a = href=3D"http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA%20M= anual%20rev4.pdf">http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsuppo= rt/AOA%20Manual%20rev4.pdf

&= nbsp;

G= rayhawk

&= nbsp;

I= n a message dated 6/17/2011 12:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, BGray@glasair.org writes:

<= /div>

Ev= ery single AOA I know of requires you to stall the aircraft to calibrate = the AOA.

&n= bsp;

= -----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bob = Rickard
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:24 = PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: [LML] Re: = Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair = 4p

 

One of the main reasons all of us IV-P owners have = a hell of a time getting insurance for our airplanes is because too many = guys "explored" the stall characteristics of their airplane = (and for many it was their last flight).   I fly another airplane = that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees AOA, and have a good bit of time = as an operational test pilot, but I will never stall my IV-P = intentionally.  Or even get close.  Like Colyn and John, I'm = 120 on downwind, 110 at the base turn and 100 on final until the runway = is assured.   Unless we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL, a stall = will probably be fatal for any of us.  Please don't be the next one = to prove this point !

 

Bob = Rickard



 

 

No virus found in this = message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1382 / = Virus Database: 1513/3710 - Release Date: = 06/17/11

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