X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:15:13 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5024058 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:40:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=VTAILJEFF@aol.com Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p5HNdZZT013566 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:39:35 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.115c.20b994e (56031) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.170]) by cia-md08.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD085-b2444dfbe5af16d; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:39:31 -0400 Received: from webmail-d099 (webmail-d099.sim.aol.com [205.188.255.20]) by smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE033-b2444dfbe5af16d; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:39:27 -0400 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p X-Original-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:39:27 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.107.65.42 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDFB5EEE695FE9_1D88_1D6D2_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33867-STANDARD Received: from 24.107.65.42 by webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com (205.188.255.20) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:39:27 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CDFB5EEE623BC6-1D88-CA0D@webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: VTAILJEFF@aol.com ----------MB_8CDFB5EEE695FE9_1D88_1D6D2_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" actually 100 hours reduces your chances--1000 hours makes it very unlikely Jeff=E2=80=99s statistics say that once you get beyond 100 hrs it becomes= unlikely that you hurt yourself. So I try to practice/fly as much as I ca= n (2 to 4 times a week is my goal) =20 -----Original Message----- From: bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 11:45 am Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair= 4p Hi Ronald, =20 May be it is too early for me to tell =E2=80=93 but may be it helps you to= get an opinion from someone that just got started and has not forgotten= how it was in the beginning=E2=80=A6. =20 I have now approx. 25 hrs in my 4P (10 hrs instruction and 15 hrs by mysel= f) =E2=80=93 Jeff=E2=80=99s statistics say that once you get beyond 100 hr= s it becomes unlikely that you hurt yourself. So I try to practice/fly as= much as I can (2 to 4 times a week is my goal) =20 My previous flight experience are 1100 hrs in a C182 which I flew most of= the time IFR =E2=80=93 as of now it is unlikely that I will get insurance= (that makes the training even more important) =20 I did my flight training with Charlie Kohler. We scheduled 3.5 days for th= is. Before he came I studied his book and made my own Pilot operating hand= book which helped me memorizing the important data / procedures. =20 Charlie did a great job making me feel comfortable in the plane. I was sti= ll working this week so he stayed at my house and we worked around my sche= dule at work and he helped me getting other things done (picking up the ca= r from the shop, getting something form Wal Mart etc.). It felt like wor= king with my Dad or a friend that really cares that I do the right things. =20 We practiced all the procedures that I remembered from the C182 training= except the power on stalls. In exchange for this he showed me how to do= a roll. And even it is supposed to be bad for the gyro I think it is pret= ty cool (I had never done this before) and my girlfriend likes it too. =20 After this week I had the feeling that the 4P flies just like the 182 =E2= =80=93 just everything happens twice as fast. =20 We installed stall strips on the leading edge of my wing. Charlie said it= would give me an approx. 3 =E2=80=93 5 knot warning before the stall. I= feel the shaking a little below 90 kts (clean) and 80 kts (flaps + gear= down). I never stalled it completely =E2=80=93 when I feel the shaking I= move the stick forward. So I assume that my airplane stalls at approx. 84= /74 kts. I also installed an angle of attack instrument which is calibrate= d for this speed. =20 When I do slow flight / stall approaches (at 10.000 ft!) I can really feel= that the plane doesn=E2=80=99t want to be in this position =E2=80=93 so= I would figure this is relatively easy to recognize =E2=80=93 plus the AO= A warning comes on and I feel the shaking of the stall stripes.=20 =20 The thing that worries me more (and the stall stripes and AOA warner don= =E2=80=99t tell you) is when you get slow (<100 kts) on final: there is a= chance that your butt drops down =E2=80=93 you start sinking very rapidly= but the plane is not stalled. The only way to get out of this is full pow= er =E2=80=93 if you have any available. It happened to me once and I was= really surprised how quick it goes down. Since then I rather do 120 kts= on a steeper final and slow it down right before I get over the fence. =20 I hope the explanations of a newcomer did not bore you too much. But I can= tell you it is a lot of fun and it is really exciting. I can see almost= 290 kts TAS at 18.00 ft with full power (with the bezel around the air sp= eed indicator =E2=80=93 it probably needs to be corrected by 15 kts or so= for air compression =E2=80=93 but it=E2=80=99s still exciting). =20 One more thing: be careful of what you buy. I bought a plane that was a lo= st worse than what I thought. I had a pre buy inspection done by Lancair= (they missed all the critical issues!) and it took me 3 years to turn it= into something that I can show without being embarrassed.=20 =20 Good luck =20 Ralf =20 =20 From: RONALD STEVENS [mailto:ronald@sdc.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 8:24 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p =20 I know this is a sensitive subject but I just got a flight test review bac= k from a plane that I am thinking to buy and was a bit surprised about the= stall speeds that were in there. =20 What kind of stall speed (clean/50%/Dirty) do you have in your 4p? And wer= e you ever thinking of having it improved by Vortex Generators or Wing cuf= f? =20 Thanks -- Ronald ----------MB_8CDFB5EEE695FE9_1D88_1D6D2_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" actually 100 hours reduces your chances--1000 hours make= s it very unlikely
Jeff=E2=80=99s statistics say that once= you get beyond 100 hrs it becomes unlikely that you hurt yourself. So I= try to practice/fly as much as I can (2 to 4 times a week is my goal)
 




-----Original Message-----
From: bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 11:45 am
Subject: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair= 4p

Hi Ronald,
 
May be it is too early for me to tell = =E2=80=93 but may be it helps you to get an opinion from someone that just= got started and has not forgotten how it was in the beginning=E2=80=A6.
 
I have now approx. 25 hrs in my 4P (10= hrs instruction and 15 hrs by myself) =E2=80=93 Jeff=E2=80=99s statistics= say that once you get beyond 100 hrs it becomes unlikely that you hurt yo= urself. So I try to practice/fly as much as I can (2 to 4 times a week is= my goal)
 
My previous flight experience are 1100= hrs in a C182 which I flew most of the time IFR =E2=80=93 as of now it is= unlikely that I will get insurance (that makes the training even more imp= ortant)
 
I did my flight training with Charlie Ko= hler. We scheduled 3.5 days for this. Before he came I studied his book an= d made my own Pilot operating handbook which helped me  memorizing th= e important data / procedures.
 
Charlie did a great job making me feel= comfortable in the plane. I was still working this week so he stayed at= my house and we worked around my schedule at work and he helped me gettin= g other things done (picking up the car from the shop, getting something= form Wal Mart etc.).   It felt like working with my Dad or a fr= iend that really cares that I do the right things.
 
We practiced all the procedures that I= remembered from the C182 training except the power on stalls. In exchange= for this he showed me how to do a roll. And even it is supposed to be bad= for the gyro I think it is pretty cool (I had never done this before) and= my girlfriend  likes it too.
 
After this week I had the feeling that= the 4P flies just like the 182 =E2=80=93 just everything happens twice as= fast.
 
We installed stall strips on the leading= edge of  my wing. Charlie said it would give me an approx. 3 =E2=80= =93 5 knot warning before the stall. I feel the shaking a little below 90= kts (clean) and 80 kts (flaps + gear down). I never stalled it completely= =E2=80=93 when I feel the shaking I move the stick forward. So I assume= that my airplane stalls at approx. 84/74 kts. I also installed an angle= of attack instrument which is calibrated for this speed.
 
When I do slow flight / stall approaches= (at 10.000 ft!) I can really feel that the plane doesn=E2=80=99t want to= be in this position =E2=80=93 so I would figure this is relatively easy= to recognize =E2=80=93 plus the AOA warning comes on and I feel the shaki= ng of the stall stripes.
 
The thing that worries me more (and the= stall stripes and AOA warner don=E2=80=99t tell you) is when you get slow= (<100 kts) on final: there is a chance that your butt drops down =E2= =80=93 you start sinking very rapidly but the plane is not stalled. The on= ly way to get out of this is full power =E2=80=93 if you have any availabl= e. It happened to me once and I was really surprised how quick it goes dow= n. Since then I rather do 120 kts on a steeper final and slow it down &nbs= p;right before I get over the fence.
 
I hope the explanations of a newcomer di= d not bore you too much. But I can tell you it is a lot of fun and it is= really exciting. I can see almost 290 kts TAS at 18.00 ft with full power= (with the bezel around the air speed indicator =E2=80=93 it probably need= s to be corrected by 15 kts or so for air compression =E2=80=93 but it=E2= =80=99s still exciting).
 
One more thing: be careful of what you= buy. I bought a plane that was a lost worse than what I thought. I had a= pre buy inspection done by Lancair (they missed all the critical issues!)= and it took me 3 years to turn it into something that I can show without= being embarrassed.
 
Good luck
 
Ralf  
 
 
I know this is a sensitive subject but= I just got a flight test review back from a plane that I am thinking to= buy and was a bit surprised about the stall speeds that were in there.
 
What kind of stall speed (clean/50%/Dirt= y) do you have in your 4p? And were you ever thinking of having it improve= d by Vortex Generators or Wing cuff?
 
Thanks -- Ronald
 ----------MB_8CDFB5EEE695FE9_1D88_1D6D2_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com--