X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:24:01 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [205.186.160.203] (HELO server.rmcginc.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5022464 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:36:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.186.160.203; envelope-from=r.rickard@rcginc-us.com Received: (qmail 26196 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2011 08:36:04 -0700 Received: from ip24-56-41-43.ph.ph.cox.net (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (24.56.41.43) by rmcomserver.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2011 08:36:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p References: From: Bob Rickard Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-10--781117239 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8J3) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:36:02 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8J3) --Apple-Mail-10--781117239 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii One of the main reasons all of us IV-P owners have a hell of a time getting i= nsurance for our airplanes is because too many guys "explored" the stall cha= racteristics of their airplane (and for many it was their last flight). I f= ly another airplane that can fly comfortably at 60 degrees AOA, and have a g= ood bit of time as an operational test pilot, but I will never stall my IV-P= intentionally. Or even get close. Like Colyn and John, I'm 120 on downwin= d, 110 at the base turn and 100 on final until the runway is assured. Unle= ss we fly the pattern at 8000 feet AGL, a stall will probably be fatal for a= ny of us. Please don't be the next one to prove this point ! Bob Rickard On Jun 16, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Colyn Case wrote: > My speeds are similar. I would caution that this is test pilot stuff. =20= > I indexed my wings also. The result was that the plane became ambivalent a= s to which direction it was going to roll off suddenly in the stall. > We also found that moving the stall strip which a bit down from the leadin= g edge would reduce the wall but increase stall speed 10 knots. >=20 > On Jun 16, 2011, at 7:24 AM, John Hafen wrote: >=20 >> Ronald: >>=20 >> My IVP stalls clean at 76 kts clean, and 65 kts in landing configuration.= But I never get that slow. Or even close. I fly downwind at 130, a very r= ounded base / transition to final at 120, and approach at 110 on final, slow= ing down to 100 over the fence. >>=20 >> One of the things my bird did when I was doing the initial testing was a 9= 0 degree snap roll to the right when I stalled it (And I mean Snap!). =46rom= there, it's pretty easy to get into a spin. >>=20 >> I fly a 1500 foot pattern for a little extra safety, knowing that any sta= ll even at that altitude would be un-recoverable. >>=20 >> Eventually, I had the wings "indexed," and ended up lowering the trailing= edge of the right wing slightly perhaps 3/16th of an inch. It now stalls s= traight ahead and I think my stall speeds were lowered slightly because of t= hat exercise. But it is still a squirrely stall that seems very unnatural c= ompared to other planes I've flown. it does this weird yaw thing, maybe bec= ause of the small tail. >>=20 >> A 4P is not your father's Olsmobile, or a Cessna. I's not a good plane t= o go slow and low for sight seeing. And 4P's are all different. Not all o= f them are square. You're smart to test it out before you buy to find a goo= d one. >>=20 >> All of this said, I LOVE my plane. I love that it is fast. You just hav= e to know the machine to stay safe. >>=20 >> John Hafen >> IVP 413AJ 300 hours >>=20 >> On Jun 15, 2011, at 5:24 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: >>=20 >> I know this is a sensitive subject but I just got a flight test review ba= ck from a plane that I am thinking to buy and was a bit surprised about the s= tall speeds that were in there. >>=20 >> What kind of stall speed (clean/50%/Dirty) do you have in your 4p? And we= re you ever thinking of having it improved by Vortex Generators or Wing cuff= ? >>=20 >> Thanks -- Ronald >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-10--781117239 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
One of the main reasons all of us IV-P o= wners have a hell of a time getting insurance for our airplanes is because t= oo many guys "explored" the stall characteristics of their airplane (and for= many it was their last flight).   I fly another airplane that can fly c= omfortably at 60 degrees AOA, and have a good bit of time as an operational t= est pilot, but I will never stall my IV-P intentionally.  Or even get c= lose.  Like Colyn and John, I'm 120 on downwind, 110 at the base turn a= nd 100 on final until the runway is assured.   Unless we fly the patter= n at 8000 feet AGL, a stall will probably be fatal for any of us.  Plea= se don't be the next one to prove this point !

Bob R= ickard



On Jun 16, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Colyn Case <= ;colyncase@earthlink.net> w= rote:

My speeds are s= imilar.   I would caution that this is test pilot stuff.   I indexed my wings also.  The result was that the plane became ambiv= alent as to which direction it was going to roll off suddenly in the stall.<= /div>
We also found that moving the stall strip which a bit down from th= e leading edge would reduce the wall but increase stall speed 10 knots.

On Jun 16, 2011, at 7:24 AM, John Hafen wrote:

Ronald:

My IVP stalls clean at 76 kts clean,= and 65 kts in landing configuration.  But I never get that slow.  = ;Or even close.  I fly downwind at 130, a very rounded base / transitio= n to final at 120, and approach at 110 on final, slowing down to 100 over th= e fence.

One of the things my bird did when I was doing t= he initial testing was a 90 degree snap roll to the right when I stalled it (= And I mean Snap!).  =46rom there, it's pretty easy to get into a spin.<= /div>

I fly a 1500 foot pattern for a little extra safety= , knowing that any stall even at that altitude would be un-recoverable.

Eventually, I had the wings "indexed," and ended up low= ering the trailing edge of the right wing slightly perhaps 3/16th of an inch= .  It now stalls straight ahead and I think my stall speeds were lowere= d slightly because of that exercise.  But it is still a squirrely stall= that seems very unnatural compared to other planes I've flown.  it doe= s this weird yaw thing, maybe because of the small tail.

A 4P is not your father's Olsmobile, or a Cessna.  I's not a good= plane to go slow and low for sight seeing.   And 4P's are all differen= t.  Not all of them are square.  You're smart to test it out befor= e you buy to find a good one.

All of this said, I L= OVE my plane.  I love that it is fast.  You just have to know the m= achine to stay safe.

John Hafen
IVP 413AJ 3= 00 hours

On Jun 15, 2011, at 5:24 PM, RONALD STEVENS= wrote:

I know this is a sensitive subject but I just got a flight test review= back from a plane that I am thinking to buy and was a bit surprised about t= he stall speeds that were in there.

What kind of st= all speed (clean/50%/Dirty) do you have in your 4p? And were you ever thinki= ng of having it improved by Vortex Generators or Wing cuff?

Thanks -- Ronald


= --Apple-Mail-10--781117239--