X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:16:55 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.63] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5022332 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:34:43 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.63; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=BpCdFIj9Id65Ly4h5mTQuYbw5iIN671tDSUpQzP9lJEBViGyee7LgQWzmYjnmakI; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.194] (helo=[192.168.1.112]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1QXChz-0003kW-O2 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:34:07 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-636--788434122 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p X-Original-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:34:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <437D4755-6C3E-480D-B9AA-544F168B24AF@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da94097fd9e7d3e7cc7f06b136febb7a49357350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.194 --Apple-Mail-636--788434122 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My speeds are similar. I would caution that this is test pilot stuff. = =20 I indexed my wings also. The result was that the plane became = ambivalent as to which direction it was going to roll off suddenly in = the stall. We also found that moving the stall strip which a bit down from the = leading edge would reduce the wall but increase stall speed 10 knots. On Jun 16, 2011, at 7:24 AM, John Hafen wrote: > Ronald: >=20 > My IVP stalls clean at 76 kts clean, and 65 kts in landing = configuration. But I never get that slow. Or even close. I fly = downwind at 130, a very rounded base / transition to final at 120, and = approach at 110 on final, slowing down to 100 over the fence. >=20 > One of the things my bird did when I was doing the initial testing was = a 90 degree snap roll to the right when I stalled it (And I mean Snap!). = =46rom there, it's pretty easy to get into a spin. >=20 > I fly a 1500 foot pattern for a little extra safety, knowing that any = stall even at that altitude would be un-recoverable. >=20 > Eventually, I had the wings "indexed," and ended up lowering the = trailing edge of the right wing slightly perhaps 3/16th of an inch. It = now stalls straight ahead and I think my stall speeds were lowered = slightly because of that exercise. But it is still a squirrely stall = that seems very unnatural compared to other planes I've flown. it does = this weird yaw thing, maybe because of the small tail. >=20 > A 4P is not your father's Olsmobile, or a Cessna. I's not a good = plane to go slow and low for sight seeing. And 4P's are all different. = Not all of them are square. You're smart to test it out before you buy = to find a good one. >=20 > All of this said, I LOVE my plane. I love that it is fast. You just = have to know the machine to stay safe. >=20 > John Hafen > IVP 413AJ 300 hours >=20 > On Jun 15, 2011, at 5:24 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: >=20 > I know this is a sensitive subject but I just got a flight test review = back from a plane that I am thinking to buy and was a bit surprised = about the stall speeds that were in there. >=20 > What kind of stall speed (clean/50%/Dirty) do you have in your 4p? And = were you ever thinking of having it improved by Vortex Generators or = Wing cuff? >=20 > Thanks -- Ronald >=20 --Apple-Mail-636--788434122 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii My = speeds are similar.   I would caution that this is test pilot = stuff.   
I indexed my wings also.  The result was = that the plane became ambivalent as to which direction it was going to = roll off suddenly in the stall.
We also found that moving the = stall strip which a bit down from the leading edge would reduce the wall = but increase stall speed 10 knots.

On Jun 16, = 2011, at 7:24 AM, John Hafen wrote:

Ronald:

My = IVP stalls clean at 76 kts clean, and 65 kts in landing configuration. =  But I never get that slow.  Or even close.  I fly = downwind at 130, a very rounded base / transition to final at 120, and = approach at 110 on final, slowing down to 100 over the = fence.

One of the things my bird did when I was doing = the initial testing was a 90 degree snap roll to the right when I = stalled it (And I mean Snap!).  =46rom there, it's pretty easy to = get into a spin.

I fly a 1500 foot pattern for = a little extra safety, knowing that any stall even at that altitude = would be un-recoverable.

Eventually, I had the = wings "indexed," and ended up lowering the trailing edge of the right = wing slightly perhaps 3/16th of an inch.  It now stalls straight = ahead and I think my stall speeds were lowered slightly because of that = exercise.  But it is still a squirrely stall that seems very = unnatural compared to other planes I've flown.  it does this weird = yaw thing, maybe because of the small tail.

A = 4P is not your father's Olsmobile, or a Cessna.  I's not a good = plane to go slow and low for sight seeing.   And 4P's are all = different.  Not all of them are square.  You're smart to test = it out before you buy to find a good one.

All = of this said, I LOVE my plane.  I love that it is fast.  You = just have to know the machine to stay safe.

John = Hafen
IVP 413AJ 300 hours

On Jun 15, = 2011, at 5:24 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: