X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:50:04 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [198.64.152.110] (HELO sdc.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5018414 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:03:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=198.64.152.110; envelope-from=ronald@sdc.com Received: from [192.168.1.109] [68.202.59.0] by sdc.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-11.5) id 86bc0005e0b18e1a; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:53:51 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 X-Original-Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:02:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [LML] Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner. From: RONALD STEVENS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List X-Original-Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [LML] Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner. In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3390764572_925747" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3390764572_925747 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Wow, this was just a great answer, not based on emotions but just pure calculations. Like to add that I have seen that a lot of 4p owners do not g= o higher then 18000ft (VFR 17500), and that this might be also because the climb does take a long time. I have sit in a few Lancair 4p's now and one thing I noticed is that the climb rate is not really that great. (1000-1400 fpm), while my old velocity easy did 1800-2000fpm (but at 145 IAS). Now I understand you guys go faster (+/- IAS 160) but climbing then to Leve= l 250 take about 23 min. (more or less, they never let you go direct, right?) Anybody has better numbers or better climb performance tips? From: Colyn Case Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:55:23 -0400 To: Subject: [LML] Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner. Another comment on winglets. My theory is the most important speed is your SL speed. Suppose you are flying 1350 nautical miles. Westbound you have a 40 knot headwind at 5000 increasing to 100 knots at fl200. Eastbound let's say you get a 40 knot tailwind at fl200. (Doesn't it usually work out that way?) Someone offers you mod A that gives you 10 knots at 5000 or mod B that give= s you 10 knots at fl200. ...and let's say your plane does 225 knots at 5000 unmodified. mod A gives you 10/(225-40) or 5.4% improvement which you enjoy for 6.9 hours mod B gives you 10/(270+40) or 3.2% improvement which you enjoy for 4.2 hours So even if the winglets delivered performance up high they don't seem like = a very good deal. Colyn > On Jun 7, 2011, at 2:18 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: >=20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Hello guys. >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> I like to introduce myself, I am 50, European/American, former Cirrus >> =20 >> SR22 (1100 hours) and Velocity TXL5 (250 hours, just sold this plane) >> =20 >> (total 1400 hours). >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> I am a future Lancair 4p owner (looking to buy one these weeks, so if >> =20 >> you know someone who wants to sell his let me know) and looked at a few >> =20 >> Lancair 4p already. >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Now about the winglets (my first question); >> =20 >> Some planes I looked at had their winglets, some not. All those that di= d not >> had one told me it doesn't do anything, the ones they had did told me i= t >> works great, >> =20 >> more stability etc, even the CAFE report is telling that it produces >> =20 >> more stability at higher altitude. >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> But=8Aeven the big Charlie Kohler told me it doesn't add anything but mor= e >> =20 >> drag...thus less speed. >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> I have no experience whatsoever with the Winglets. So my question to yo= u >> =20 >> guys is, do you have any experience telling you that it does work? (thi= s >> =20 >> is more for pilots who had both so they can tell the difference) >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Thanks -- Ronald Stevens > =20 > --B_3390764572_925747 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Wow, this was just a great a= nswer, not based on emotions but just pure calculations. Like to add that I = have seen that a lot of 4p owners do not go higher then 18000ft (VFR 17500),= and that this might be also because the climb does take a long time.
<= div>
I have sit in a few Lancair 4p's now and one thing I noti= ced is that the climb rate is not really that great. (1000-1400 fpm), while = my old velocity easy did 1800-2000fpm (but at 145 IAS).

=
Now I understand you guys go faster (+/- IAS 160) but climbing then to = Level 250 take about 23 min. (more or less, they never let you go direct, ri= ght?)

Anybody has better numbers or better climb pe= rformance tips?

From: Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlin= k.net>
Reply-To: Lancair Ma= iling List <lml@lancaironline.net<= /a>>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:= 55:23 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Winglets? And introducing myself as a ve= ry near future 4p owner.

Another comment on winglets.

My theory is the most im= portant speed is your SL speed.
Suppose you are flying 1350 nautic= al miles.
Westbound you have a 40 knot headwind at 5000 increasing= to 100 knots at fl200.
Eastbound let's say you get a 40 knot tail= wind at fl200.   (Doesn't it usually work out that way?)

=
Someone offers you mod A that gives you 10 knots at 5000 or mod B= that gives you 10 knots at fl200.
...and let's say your plane doe= s 225 knots at 5000 unmodified.

mod A gives you 10/= (225-40) or 5.4% improvement which you enjoy for 6.9 hours
mod B g= ives you 10/(270+40) or 3.2% improvement which you enjoy for 4.2 hours
=


So even if the winglets delivered perform= ance up high they don't seem like a very good deal.

Colyn


On Jun 7, 2011, at 2:18 PM, RON= ALD STEVENS wrote:

Hello guys.
 
I like to introduce= myself, I am 50, European/American, former Cirrus
SR22 (1100 hours) a= nd Velocity TXL5 (250 hours, just sold this plane)
(total 1400 hours).
 
I am a future Lanca= ir 4p owner (looking to buy one these weeks, so if
you know someone wh= o wants to sell his let me know) and looked at a few
Lancair 4p already.
 
Now about the wingl= ets (my first question);
Some planes I looke= d at had their winglets, some not. All those that did not had one told me it doesn't do anything, the ones they had did told me it works great,
more stability etc,= even the CAFE report is telling that it produces
more stability at h= igher altitude.
 
But…even the = big Charlie Kohler told me it doesn't add anything but more
drag...thus less speed.
 
I have no experienc= e whatsoever with the Winglets. So my question to you
guys is, do you hav= e any experience telling you that it does work? (this
is more for pilots = who had both so they can tell the difference)
 
Thanks -- Ronald Stevens
 
=
<glasair new pnt.jpg><AC home = after painting 001.jpg>

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