X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:13:20 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm30-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.190] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5013482 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:40:44 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.190; envelope-from=charliekohler@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.48] by nm30.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2011 13:40:08 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.199] by tm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2011 13:40:08 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1057.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2011 13:40:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 28735.37067.bm@omp1057.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 41919 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jun 2011 13:40:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WQdxwDZulsomhlG/YJacL1c13swRayH1wkpP2hlZnAii6yGpI+gxVVu92q9zP3rR4Y+pNGabJ52jALBrTN6w8an6QX+MfJSvuqs1EFnkmsNk++k/DuyaenG09YPRf7USOcEG0u1UNimAtS05WXPpHvw+rQJ2AVOUH5e3QLyZcvI=; X-Original-Message-ID: <828529.41573.qm@web126008.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: FGyxwPwVM1kTSFbDTvgPwB0AFYxvRgQFFZ6T9L4N.3Y2kjl 9rj_2P3.ObNWbUb1.Bddo9PG6GEWJedaTfCwiWAufbKIDzt4LdODZL0BT1if 63abCCYXKKS1jxVc13JuCzhfVYqyrrEESyb926BwrBHn2hHvQffHA32a0SKF BFWnWMHRdcRLdUyEyGf0gWpYXuhIKflWFAeBpaTsOXDooVUNETaAl5OVgGrR 1NTMElJIq.b6qGZF12pgn.hSQ0FhUTeUy3xBXhMMF2A2Qx_4JKj4c2IXBDrE zjSzE4MFIfc0hr7JAhTKAC6ac05kWwPzmJz2U1KdejNDUmKoyXbSIXTSZEr1 EtNmfSRuG327EzxE1qLc7g6bob3.f1qwIC67gE2FeJYF6Mr4S4XIWVrbUVLn LKF9MkIFYqKXopANIU.2noAmeM3slsfhbUcA3ns4pkQXiQ6URzn7.pfuHOpX _uqWb72zO7uEjHZtCkbYsT86n1AaJmIbCfGRfbf2c1C7_Fp_uIBizfRalxfh 436OVLV8fJUsGo5aeuy4lKOSxVLnjQc4- Received: from [98.138.83.203] by web126008.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jun 2011 06:40:00 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.111.304355 References: X-Original-Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Charlie Kohler Reply-To: Charlie Kohler Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner. X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1322547387-1307540400=:41573" --0-1322547387-1307540400=:41573 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't forget that the winglets are mounted (and add to) the washout in the = wing--hence requiring adding (nose up) to the angle of attack giving more d= rag (ice?) for level flight.=C2=A0 =0A=0A=C2=A0=0ACharlie K.=0A=C2=A0=0ASee= me on the web at =0Awww.Lancair-IV.com=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=0A__________________= ______________=0AFrom: Colyn Case =0ATo: lml@lanca= ironline.net=0ASent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 8:25 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: W= inglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner.=0A=0A=0Athe= re are two questions: stability and speed.=0A=0Aif you go into the archives= you will find comments about both.=0AMy favorite on the speed is in the se= ries of drag reduction articles by Fred Moreno:=0Ahttp://lancair.net/archiv= es/Drag_Reduction_Part_1.pdf=0A=0Asearch the doc for "winglets" and find "s= ide note on winglets"=0A=0AI don't know what the full argument for stabilit= y comes down to aerodynamically.=0A....is it simply the added span?=0AI can= say that the roll input required with winglets is unpleasant at high speed= s.=0A=0Acareful on the buy. =C2=A0 the airframe could be perfect but still = lots of gremlins in the systems.=0A=0AColyn=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Jun 7, 2011, a= t 2:18 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote:=0A=0AHello guys.=0A>=0A>=0A>I like to intr= oduce myself, I am 50, European/American, former Cirrus=0A>SR22 (1100 hours= ) and Velocity TXL5 (250 hours, just sold this plane)=0A>(total 1400 hours)= .=0A>=0A>=0A>I am a future Lancair 4p owner (looking to buy one these weeks= , so if=0A>you know someone who wants to sell his let me know) and looked a= t a few=0A>Lancair 4p already.=0A>=0A>=0A>Now about the winglets (my first = question);=0A>Some planes I looked at had their winglets, some not. All tho= se that did not had one told=C2=A0me it doesn't do anything, the ones they = had did told me it works great,=0A>more stability etc, even the CAFE report= is telling that it produces=0A>more stability at higher altitude.=0A>=0A>= =0A>But=E2=80=A6even the big Charlie Kohler told me it doesn't add anything= but more=0A>drag...thus less speed.=0A>=0A>=0A>I have no experience whatso= ever with the Winglets. So my question to you=0A>guys is, do you have any e= xperience telling you that it does work? (this=0A>is more for pilots who ha= d both so they can tell the difference)=0A>=0A>=0A>Thanks -- Ronald Stevens --0-1322547387-1307540400=:41573 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't fo= rget that the winglets are mounted (and add to) the washout in the wing--he= nce requiring adding (nose up) to the angle of attack giving more drag (ice= ?) for level flight. 
 
Charlie K= .
 
See me on the web at
 

From: Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net>
= To: lml@lancaironline.net<= br>Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 8:25= AM
Subject: [LML] Re: = Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner.
=
=0A
there are two questions: stability and spee= d.

if you go into the archives you will find comments ab= out both.
My favorite on the speed is in the series of drag reduc= tion articles by Fred Moreno:
http://lancair.net/archives/Drag_Re= duction_Part_1.pdf

search the doc for "winglets" a= nd find "side note on winglets"

I don't know what = the full argument for stability comes down to aerodynamically.
..= ..is it simply the added span?
I can say that the roll input requ= ired with winglets is unpleasant at high speeds.

c= areful on the buy.   the airframe could be perfect but still lots of g= remlins in the systems.

Colyn

=


On Jun 7, 2011, at 2:18 PM, RONALD STEVEN= S wrote:

Hello guys.

I like to introduce myself, I am 50, European/American, former = Cirrus
SR22 (110= 0 hours) and Velocity TXL5 (250 hours, just sold this plane)
(total 1400 hours).

I am a future Lancair 4p owner (looki= ng to buy one these weeks, so if
you know someone who wants to sell his let me know) and lo= oked at a few
La= ncair 4p already.

Now about the win= glets (my first question);
Some planes I looked at had their winglets, some not. All those = that did not had one told me it doesn't do anything, the ones they had= did told me it works great,
more stability etc, even the CAFE report is telling that it pr= oduces
more stab= ility at higher altitude.

B= ut=E2=80=A6even the big Charlie Kohler told me it doesn't add anything but = more
drag...thus= less speed.
I have no experience what= soever with the Winglets. So my question to you
guys is, do you have any experience telling= you that it does work? (this
is more for pilots who had both so they can tell the differen= ce)

Thanks -- Ronald Steven= s
=0A



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