X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 12:18:22 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173021pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.21] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTP id 6855863 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 May 2014 09:09:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.21; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([unknown] [173.57.170.65]) by vms173021.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0N4Y009SH76G3PB0@vms173021.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 May 2014 08:08:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Bill Bradburry" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 X-Original-Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 08:08:44 -0500 X-Original-Message-id: <9E1B963D614E42DBA59791F8E6516B3A@Desktop> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01CF65DD.BCDDE430" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 Thread-index: Ac9l+ab+aStkAPs5TwCN9775ci6nKQADTZEw This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01CF65DD.BCDDE430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, Is this sensor actually working in your VMS1000 or are you saying that it should theoretically work? If it is actually working it seems to me that these less expensive sensors would be the sensors of choice for replacement until such time as the entire VMS1000 system craps out. Or I guess that is what you are saying?? Another Bill _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of William Rumburg Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 6:29 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 Nick - My approach was to search for a transducer with the same electrical parameters as the MediaMate, for which the VMS1000 fuel and oil pressure indications were designed (i.e. 5VDC excitation and 50mV full-scale output). Unfortunately, that turns out to be a combination rarely used in industry; however, one version of the MSP US300 series has those parameters, which makes it an exact electrical replacement. Furthermore, MSP transducers are modern, high-quality and inexpensive - in contrast with the antiquated, failure-prone and outrageously overpriced MediaMate. I appreciate your efforts toward another solution, but why not go with the US321??? Bill Rumburg ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Long To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:46 PM Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 Hi Bill, (Bill Rumburg, that is; there are two Bills in the thread) I don't disagree with anything you said. But the fact that the VMS-1000 DPU could be difficult to keep going in the long term - liable to become toast as you say - makes me reluctant to go for sensors that are specific to it. If my scheme works then I have pressure sensors that might (not guaranteed, but might) work with another display system. At least they will be industry standard and I'm also going to use industry standard connectors, not the spade terminals. If the fuel flow sensor failed, then I would probably ignore it, at least for a while. But without OP and FP displays, you have to take action immediately. Yours, Nick From: William Rumburg Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:13 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 Nick - The VMS-1000 was a state-of-the-art engine indication/fuel management system back in the mid-90's and is still quite respectable. However, it's DPU is comprised of individual electronic devices which are now obsolete; hence, if any one of them is damaged or fails, you may as well consider the entire DPU toast. The possiblity of damage to an individual component is my reason for not experimenting with voltage dividers, etc. in an attempt to make non-standard sensors work. Fortunately, sensors are -for the most part- still available. One insurmountable problem, however, would be replacement of the fuel flow sensor. FloScan went from an 18K to a 6K unit and fuel flow accuracy requires that sensors "K" factor be programmed into the DPU, which is no longer possible for the VMS. The MediaMate's terminals are numbered 1 thru 4 and function as you've listed; however, terminals 2 and 4 are more correctly identified as - and + 5 VDC excitaton, with terminals 1 and 3 as + and - mV signal. I've also failed to mention that the MediaMate's plug-on 'Hirschmann' terminals are ill-conceived and problem-prone, especially for a mV signal; whereas, the MSP US 300 series all have a permanent, factory-installed connection. Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01CF65DD.BCDDE430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill,

Is this sensor actually working in = your VMS1000 or are you saying that it should theoretically work?  If it = is actually working it seems to me that these less expensive sensors would = be the sensors of choice for replacement until such time as the entire VMS1000 = system craps out.  Or I guess that is what you are = saying??

 

Another = Bill

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of William Rumburg
Sent: Friday, May 02, = 2014 6:29 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2

 

Nick -

 

My approach was to search for a transducer with = the same electrical parameters as the MediaMate, for which the VMS1000 fuel = and oil pressure indications were designed (i.e. 5VDC excitation and 50mV = full-scale output). Unfortunately, that turns out to be a combination rarely = used in industry; however, one version of the MSP US300 series has = those parameters, which makes it an exact electrical replacement. Furthermore, = MSP transducers are modern, high-quality and inexpensive - in contrast = with the antiquated, failure-prone and outrageously overpriced = MediaMate. I appreciate your efforts toward another solution, but why not go with the US321???

 

Bill Rumburg

  

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Nick = Long

Sent: = Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:46 PM

Subject: [LML] = Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2

 

Hi = Bill,

 

=

(Bill Rumburg, that is; there are = two Bills in the thread)

 

=

I don’t disagree with = anything you said. But the fact that the VMS-1000 DPU could be difficult to keep = going in the long term – liable to become toast as you say – makes me = reluctant to go for sensors that are specific to it. If my scheme works then I = have pressure sensors that might (not guaranteed, but might) work with = another display system. At least they will be industry standard and I’m = also going to use industry standard connectors, not the spade = terminals.

 

=

If the fuel flow sensor failed, = then I would probably ignore it, at least for a while. But without OP and FP = displays, you have to take action immediately.

 

=

Yours,

=

 

=

Nick

 

=

 

Sent: Tuesday, = April 29, 2014 1:13 PM

Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2

 

Nick -

 

The VMS-1000 was a = state-of-the-art engine indication/fuel management system back in the mid-90's and is = still quite respectable. However, it's DPU is comprised of individual = electronic devices which are now obsolete; hence, if any one of them is damaged or = fails, you may as well consider the entire DPU toast. The possiblity of damage = to an individual component is my reason for not experimenting with voltage = dividers, etc. in an attempt to make non-standard sensors work. Fortunately, = sensors are -for the most part- still available. One insurmountable problem, = however, would be replacement of the fuel flow sensor. FloScan went from an 18K to a 6K = unit and fuel flow accuracy requires that sensors "K" factor be = programmed into the DPU, which is no longer possible for the = VMS.

The MediaMate's terminals are = numbered 1 thru 4 and function as you've listed; however, terminals 2 and 4 are = more correctly identified as - and + 5 VDC excitaton, with terminals 1 and 3 = as + and - mV signal. I've also failed to mention that the MediaMate's = plug-on 'Hirschmann' terminals are ill-conceived and problem-prone, especially = for a mV signal; whereas, the MSP US 300 series all have a permanent, = factory-installed connection.

 

Bill

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