Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #69862
From: John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Gear Down...INOP
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:04:12 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Marv, 

it's always most appreciated and informative to have free argument of opposing ideas even when the subject does not apply to my model of aircraft. When it turns to invective like this post, the value is lost and it starts to become a nuisance.

My  $.02
John Barrett
N31VP

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2014, at 7:59 AM, "Wolfgang" <Wolfgang@MiCom.net> wrote:

Chris,
 
I remain unconvinced with your theory. You have suggested that the pump will somehow shut down immediately after it has started up due to some pressure pulse. The mechanisim of which you have yet to clarify, let alone demonstrated.
 
I'm tired of your kibitzing and since you have proven that you can't let it go, I will and leave you to humor yourself.
 
Wolfgang
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 1:28 PM
Subject: Gear Down...INOP

Wolfgang,

<<“I believe in redundancy and it looks like you don't….”>>

I am a big proponent of redundancy.  That is redundancy defined as a true back-up to an otherwise trouble-free system.

First, I have redundant switches to power the pump solenoids.  This allows me to raise and lower the gear in case of the failure of either of the pressure switches.  It doesn’t happen very often, but it does happen - twice in 17 years of flying my 360. 

I also have redundant gear down indications.  Two completely separate systems, separate switches, separate wires and separate indicators.  The second set of switches is mounted directly on the over-center links.

I even carry two iPads and a iPhone - just in case

<<“The pressure pulse you're talking about will subside (glad you agree) and as it does, because the cylinder is only partially extended, the cylinder will continues to extend, the low switch will close again, and enable the pump to continue . .”>>

The part you seem to be missing here is that the momentary pulse is not directly turning off the pump.  Thus when the pulse subsides, the pump doesn’t just spring back to life.  The pulse pushes the spool in the wrong direction -against the pump flow.  This locks the poppet that the pump just opened up a fraction of a second earlier.  When this happens, the high side begins to pressurize along with the low side.  As soon as both sides reach the low side pressure setting, the pump is turned off.  This is why you see both high and low circuits pressurized to the same value in Lorn’s photo.

To prevent this, the low side pressure settings should be raised.  800 psi has proven sufficient.  The high volume gear pump will reduce the size of the pulse since the higher volume pump is able to absorb incoming fluid at a higher rate.

I highly recommend pressure gauges for both high and low circuit be installed in a location visible to the pilot.  The state of the system can always be verified.  One can immediately diagnose any in-flight problem.  Leaks can be caught early.  And adjusting pressure settings is no longer guess work.
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
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