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[174.0.112.194]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sm5sm29731409pab.19.2014.03.30.12.46.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Miller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FCDD07D0-AFD8-45AF-B6ED-898820EC9840" X-Original-Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: FW: Adding an AOA X-Original-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 13:46:21 -0600 References: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) --Apple-Mail=_FCDD07D0-AFD8-45AF-B6ED-898820EC9840 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 The BK instrument is a lift reserve indicator, not a stall indicator. = It is meant to augment aircraft with stall indicators. But, the primary = purpose for you Doug is to show the Donut "on speed" at your desired 1.3 = Vso if that is where you want to fly your approach. After reading the = literature I would just set the optimal for that speed based on your = weight for 1.3 Vso and go fly. The device should show you best speed for downwind, base, final and = anything slower than "optimal" will start calling out warnings up to the = third warning. But, this unit isn't providing stall warnings so it is = possible to stall before getting to your last warning. That's a = potential problem so you either stay out of that zone or test it up in = that area in a safe manner. I use the Advanced AOA and we just set the 1.3 Vso plus a few other = settings so this BK isn't much different. You don't have the ports in = your Legacy wing for the Advanced device I assume. Sticking this thing out in the airflow is going to offset your hinge = mod=85. Paul On 2014-03-30, at 1:34 PM, "Douglas Brunner" = wrote: Terrence, =20 There is no =93angle=94 to mark. Both instruments use an array of = colored lights - in both, the top colored light is a red arrow pointing = down =96 presumably this is to indicate a stall. =20 The way that both are made to be used is to define a safe speed (roughly = 1.3 Vso) that can be used during landing (and other maneuvers) =20 My question was whether to set it to 1.3 Vso or to do the maneuver = described in the setup. =20 D. Brunner =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Terrence O'Neill Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:18 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: FW: Adding an AOA =20 D., =20 IMHO the prime purpose of an AOA is: =20 To make the wing's STALL ANGLE visible to the pilot. You do that by = flying the plane and stalling it as you watch the AOA... then mark that = angle. The next most useful AOA info is the best L/D or best R/C... done the = same way... fly the plane while watching the best R/C for a given power = setting, and make that angle. =20 Terrence L235/320 N211AL =20 On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Douglas Brunner wrote: I am thinking of adding an AOA to my plane. The two models that I am = looking at are the Bendix King KLR 10 = (http://www.bendixking.com/Products/Flight-Controls-Indicators/Indicators/= KLR-10) and one of the Alpha Systems units = (http://www.alphasystemsaoa.com/) My question has to do with the calibration. Both systems require a = calibration at 3 points: 1. On Ground 2. Optimum Alpha Angle 3. Cruise =20 The =93on ground=94 and =93cruise=94 are self explanatory, however the = definition of =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 seems a little =93loosey-goosey=94= to me. Here are the definitions: =20 Alpha Systems =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 =B7 Able to hold altitude =96 as close to 0 VSI as possible, = zero sink =B7 Full aileron, elevator and rudder control =96 no buffet or = loss of control surface stability =20 Bendix King =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 =B7 Able to hold altitude, 0 Vertical Speed, zero sink (5 to 10 = fpm climb OK) =B7 Full aileron, elevator and rudder control, not in a buffet, = pilot to identify the set point by pitching back slowly to a pitch no longer able to climb but able to hold = altitude with full control of the airplane. =20 First of all, since this is a system meant to be used in landing (or at = least that is how I will mostly use it), I intend to calibrate the = =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 in landing configuration (gear down, full = flaps). However, determining when I have =93full aileron, elevator and = rudder control=94 isn=92t all that clear to me. I am sure that I can = tell when I have aileron, elevator and rudder control =96 but the =93full=94= part is less clear. Does that mean a full control deflection? Not = something I am anxious to try that close to stall. =20 Alternatively, I could just do a stall in landing configuration and set = the =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 to 1.3 x stall. =20 Advice? =20 D. Brunner N241DB 750 hours --Apple-Mail=_FCDD07D0-AFD8-45AF-B6ED-898820EC9840 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 The = BK instrument is a lift reserve indicator, not a stall indicator. =  It is meant to augment aircraft with stall indicators.  But, = the primary purpose for you Doug is to show the Donut "on speed" at your = desired 1.3 Vso if that is where you want to fly your approach.   = After reading the literature I would just set the optimal for that speed = based on your weight for 1.3 Vso and go fly.

The = device should show you best speed for downwind, base, final and anything = slower than "optimal" will start calling out warnings up to the third = warning.  But, this unit isn't providing stall warnings so it is = possible to stall before getting to your last warning.  That's a = potential problem so you either stay out of that zone or test it up in = that area in a safe manner.

I use the Advanced = AOA and we just set the 1.3 Vso plus a few other settings so this BK = isn't much different.  You don't have the ports in your Legacy wing = for the Advanced device I = assume.


Sticking this thing out = in the airflow is going to offset your hinge = mod=85.

Paul
On 2014-03-30, = at 1:34 PM, "Douglas Brunner" <douglasbrunner@earthlink.net<= /a>> wrote:

 
There is no =93angle=94 to mark.  Both = instruments use an array of colored lights -  in both, the top = colored light is a red arrow pointing down =96 presumably this is to = indicate a stall.
 
The way that both are made to be used is to = define a safe speed (roughly 1.3 Vso) that can be used during landing = (and other maneuvers)
 
My question was whether to set it to 1.3 Vso = or to do the maneuver described in the = setup.
 
D. Brunner
From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Terrence = O'Neill
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:18 = PM
To:  [LML] Re: FW: Adding an = AOA
 I am thinking of adding an = AOA to my plane.  The two models that I am looking at are the = Bendix King KLR 10 (

 On Ground
2. Optimum Alpha = Angle
3.      Cruise The =93on ground=94 = and =93cruise=94 are self explanatory, however the definition of = =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 seems a little =93loosey-goosey=94 to = me.  Here are the definitions:
Alpha = Systems =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94
=B7 Able to hold altitude =96 = as close to 0 VSI as possible, zero sink
=B7 Full aileron, elevator and = rudder control =96 no buffet or loss of control surface = stability
Bendix King = =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94
=B7 Able to hold altitude, 0 = Vertical Speed, zero sink (5 to 10 fpm climb OK)
=B7 Full aileron, elevator and = rudder control, not in a buffet, pilot to identify the set point = by
pitching back slowly to a pitch no longer able to = climb but able to hold altitude with full
 First of all, since = this is a system meant to be used in landing (or at least that is how I = will mostly use it), I intend to calibrate the =93Optimum Alpha Angle=94 = in landing configuration (gear down, full flaps).  However, = determining when I have =93full aileron, elevator and rudder control=94 = isn=92t all that clear to me.  I am sure that I can tell when I = have aileron, elevator and rudder control =96 but the =93full=94 part is = less clear.  Does that mean a full control deflection?  Not = something I am anxious to try that close to stall. Alternatively, I = could just do a stall in landing configuration and set the =93Optimum = Alpha Angle=94 to 1.3 x stall. Advice?

D. Brunner

N241DB 750 = hours