X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:11:39 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm12-vm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6560035 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 11:51:03 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.105; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.57] by nm12.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2013 15:50:27 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.251] by tm10.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2013 15:50:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1043.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2013 15:50:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 535759.62866.bm@omp1043.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 44798 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Oct 2013 15:50:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=wvO2JN513rdKQuK2o5s3dgM4IDqCBFb/+NS3pSYGbZ/wHz0GTQGLlKGEVZBPVm0hcqHoWCmUfJBa7L7+hCDt+DsoVJp95kkiWc51+YpdJPMUai9i9WYWMSO5QqfJFt7G3uLYXWbZTGMmHAo40gCkKKy3fG4ILBYolFvzeRkGTeA=; X-YMail-OSG: jcOn1Y0VM1lsas4jViHDaFv2n0gEOEDdxsVEZRTtdBjWvhG n9L96gqFRM0Zis11AlLYJQykFWa1C2T2XrtevBfiwAtkxT._CLZcARDB9h7E IbPgQj_KxJfVB6CFEVd_a8G3JSA9U9Oef7gG.qq4Cs50lUdu52gR0l6eywnt SxuPYbBcZt98Ym4zAjYHJMUbRabQ_AYGO_kGY.jFTVPdKtfOAX7E8Ll7mGiF x1ZZl2iyxahkioppG2.CDBgbEPqRus5i56QMtmgOxHFyxZZ3lnsbz95.JWui 8TGqqCGS0iIF.o7E1MsSRVaOHXIkruIvle569PO_EEDxBlVYtK5rQJLOSIsu FkqYN51epLQWRsKnJLY5YQmxWjbxbwXYqk7ft3sdHEnMEFMoMMlHBUQrTzH. Ev5V7gjkyndbhX1_wPWG9Eludpz6RFkC0.Ejh.TJeOp0zp1QA9cSFfUZpKE5 U57lb2FGvuS9WvgV8xJxGG0zNcQrbjEJ3drZ4XJv_gjSEdn6nUy207uqKkKk 7G6QLThFJWyyYJ6miU671pLaC3nPIT0KKMApWCINVsC.mWgmOVU0TVC56LEm QjKeQcdLC6BCCcnYuGXH76aoFxgP4CLeM9UY13PBD0NS5a.X0u1bfs0Tt3yP wb9UqiAY0ikfjjIjKdj6x11uOQHyxsaw- Received: from [172.14.16.72] by web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:50:27 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,UmFuZHksCkNhbiB5b3UgcHJvdmlkZSBzb21lIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscyBvbiB0aGUgZmxhcCBtb2RpZmljYXRpb24_wqAgVGhhdCBtaWdodCBleHBsYWluIHNvbWUgb2YgdGhlIGRpcnR5IHN0YWxsIHNwZWVkIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzLsKgIEkgYW0gY3VyaW91cyBhYm91dCB0aGUgd2luZyB0cmFpbGluZyBlZGdlIGFuZCBmbGFwIGxlYWRpbmcgZWRnZSBpbnRlcmZhY2UuCsKgCkFsbCwKSnVzdCBmb3IgcmVmZXJlbmNlLCBnaXZlbiBhbiBpbmRpY2F0ZWQgc3RhbGwgb2YgNjEgS0lBUyBhdCAxLDYwMCBsYjoKS0lBUywBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.160.587 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1382457027.43715.YahooMailNeo@web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:50:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Stall speeds for LNC2 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-2038480821-332546379-1382457027=:43715" ---2038480821-332546379-1382457027=:43715 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy,=0ACan you provide some more details on the flap modification?=A0 Tha= t might explain some of the dirty stall speed differences.=A0 I am curious = about the wing trailing edge and flap leading edge interface.=0A=A0=0AAll,= =0AJust for reference, given an indicated stall of 61 KIAS at 1,600 lb:=0AK= IAS, Load factor=0A61=A0=A0=A0=A01.0=0A70=A0=A0=A0=A01.3=A0=A0=A0=0A80=A0= =A0=A0=A01.7=0A90=A0=A0=A0=A02.2=0A100=A0=A0=A0=A02.7=0A=A0=0Aweight, stall= speed (KIAS)=0A1600=A0=A0=A0=A061.0=0A1800=A0=A0=A0=A064.7=0A2000=A0=A0=A0= =A072.3=0A=A0=0AIf your indicated stall speed is higher, everything scales = up=0Afor stall at 72 KIAS=0AKIAS, load factor=0A72=A0=A0=A0=A01.0=0A80=A0= =A0=A0=A01.2=0A90=A0=A0=A0=A01.6=0A100=A0=A0=A0=A01.9=0A=A0=0ANotes that st= all speed varies by quite a bit from super-light (1 person, low fuel, no ba= ggage) to heavy (2 people, full gas, lots of bags)=0A=A0=0AChris Zavatson= =0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Ahttp://www.n91cz.net/=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:17 AM, George Shattuck wrote:=0A =0A =0AOver the years I have made it a practi= ce to turn =0Abase with half flap and 100 kts. or so, then=A0turning final = at roughly 90 to =0A95 kts.=A0 When I have the runway made down comes full = flap, ease the power =0Aand start the flair so that at 1/8 inch off the run= way the airplane stops flying =0Aand squeeks on.=A0 My stall speed with gea= r and half flap is in the low 60's =0Abut I don't like to get near that spe= ed.=A0 I suppose it is my old Navy =0Ahabits but I keep it close in on the = downwind and base.=A0 There is no sense =0Ato being wide abeam and strung o= ut on a long final. =0A=A0 =0AOn take off I keep the nose down and cleaned = up I'm =0Anear 135 to 140 kts by the end of the runway (5000"), the up and = off I =0Ago. =0A=A0 =0AGeorge Shattuck =0ALNC2, 1500+ hrs. small tail, 1989= kit =0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Keith Smith =0A>To: lm= l@lancaironline.net =0A>Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 3:27 PM =0A>Subjec= t: Re: [LML] Re: Stall speeds for LNC2 =0A>=0A> =0A>The only stall speed I= know for my airplane is 61kias in the landing config, power off. That's t= he only stall I've performed or intended to perform. Not sure why mine is = 6-7kts lower than yours, unless you're using KCAS? =0A>=0A> =0A>Small tail= , 40 flaps here. =0A>=0A> =0A>Keith =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at= 12:56 PM, wrote:=0A>=0A> =0A>>Randy, =0A>>=0A>>Interest= ing. =0A>>=0A>>In the pattern, level,=A0lo pwr=A0and dirty, 1.3 x 61=3D79 = KIAS.=A0 A 30 degree banked turn raises the stall speed about 4 kts.=A0 No= t much of a margin if operating at or below 85 KIAS. =0A>>=0A>>Engine failu= re on take off after flaps and gear cleaned up - level flight - 1.3 x 72 = =3D 93 and a 30 degree turn raises that to 98 KIAS.=A0 I think that's why = I liked to climb out at an excess of 130 KIAS. =0A>>=0A>>Scott =0A>>=0A>>= =0A>>In a message dated 10/21/2013 11:34:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mar= v@lancair.net writes: =0A>>Posted for "Randy Hartman" :=0A>>>=0A>>>>Fellow =0A 360 drivers,=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>= >> I have over 500 hours on =0A my Lancair 360 (N360DE) now and just r= ecently did=0A>>>> my first stalls. =0A (I know, I know, I should have= done them a long time ago,=0A>>>> =0A but...)=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> = =0A>>>> Here are the numbers:=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> Altitude =3D 8= ,500, OAT =3D 65 DF=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> Clean=0A>>>> =0A>>>>=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Power =0A OFF=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A072 =0A = Kts=A0=A0(right wing=0A>>>> drooping, left wing fall off)=0A>>>> =0A>>>>= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Power ON (13" =0A MAP)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =0A 69.5 Kts (slight break/buffet)=0A>>>> =0A>>>> = =0A>>>> =0A>>>> Dirty =0A (full flaps, gear down)=0A>>>> =0A>>>>=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Power =0A OFF=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A067.8 =0A = Kts (slight=0A>>>> break/buffet)=0A>>>> =0A>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Po= wer ON (13" =0A MAP)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =0A = 60.8 Kts (slight break/buffet)=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> Because =0A= of my own personal respect for, and healthy fear of, the airplane=0A>= >>> =0A and the unknown results of stalls in this airplane, I approach= ed the =0A stall=0A>>>> speeds very slowly and deliberately, taking ca= re to keep the =0A ball centered.=0A>>>> The numbers taken were at the= first, slightest feel =0A of a stall.=A0=A0I have it=0A>>>> all on vi= deo.=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> I am wondering what others have =0A = experienced.=A0=A0Are these numbers unusual?=0A>>>> High, low, =0A e= tc.?=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> Points of interest regarding =0A N= 360DE:=0A>>>> =0A>>>> .=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =0A The tail is neithe= r "large" or "small".=A0=A0It is a one-off=0A>>>> =0A modification tha= t is a little larger than the =0A original.=A0=A0(Designed and built= =0A>>>> by Chuck Brenner prior to =0A my ownership.)=0A>>>> =0A>>>> = =0A .=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The flaps are =0A non-standard for = the 360.=A0=A0They are hinged below the=0A>>>> =0A bottom surface of t= he wing on three pivot points about 1.25" below. =0A (Also=0A>>>> desi= gned and built by Chuck Brenner prior to my =0A ownership.)=0A>>>> =0A= >>>> =0A .=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Cowling has no lower =0A bulge= for the RSA.=A0=A0The RSA is mounted on the=0A>>>> front of =0A the o= il pan. (Cowlings by Chuck Brenner.)=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A .=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have 10" stall strips =0A installed on the leading edge= of the wings=0A>>>> about 12" from the side =0A of the fuselage.=0A>>= >> =0A>>>> =0A .=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 When trimmed up, she =0A = flies extraordinarily stable, the faster the=0A>>>> more stable=0A>>>> =0A= >>>> .=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Very responsive =0A in pitch, which I b= elieve is normal for the 360 -=0A>>>> but I have not =0A flown in any = other 360/320/235=A0=A0=0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> =0A>>>> Randy Hartman=0A>>>>= =0A>>>> Alpha Omega Aircrafters=0A>>>> =0A>>>> (319) 360-9775=0A>>>> =0A>>= >> =0A>>>> =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>--=0A>>>For archives and unsub http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=0A>>>=0A> ---2038480821-332546379-1382457027=:43715 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Randy,
Can you provide some= more details on the flap modification?  That might explain some of th= e dirty stall speed differences.  I am curious about the wing trailing= edge and flap leading edge interface.
 =
All,
Just for reference, given an i= ndicated stall of 61 KIAS at 1,600 lb:
KIAS, Load fa= ctor
61    1= .0
70=     1.3   
= 80    1.7
90    2.2
100    2.7
=  =
weight, stall= speed (KIAS)
1600    61.0<= /span>
1800    64.7<= /span>
2000&n= bsp;   72.3=
 
= If your indicated stall speed is higher, everything scales up
for stall at 72 KIAS=
KIAS, load factor
= 72   =  1.0
80    1.2
9= 0    1.6
= = 100  =   1.9
=  
Notes that stall spee= d varies by quite a bit from super-light (1 person, low fuel, no baggage) t= o heavy (2 people, full gas, lots of bags)
 
= Chris Zavatson
<= span class=3D"tab">N91CZ
<= span class=3D"tab">360std
= =  
= =  
 
=0A= =0A =0A =0A =0A <= /td>=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A


On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:17 AM, George S= hattuck <gws37@plantationcable.net> wrote:
=0A=0A =0A =0A