X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 11:14:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail.carneal.com ([174.129.224.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6550448 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 10:06:00 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=174.129.224.69; envelope-from=walter@advancedpilot.com Received: (qmail 17326 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2013 14:05:35 -0000 Received: from 174-24-113-57.clsp.qwest.net (HELO ?192.168.182.27?) (walter@advancedpilot.com@174.24.113.57) by mail.carneal.com with ESMTPA; 22 Oct 2013 14:05:35 -0000 From: Walter Atkinson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_651ACE84-4D0A-4693-A1A3-1A6EFFB85B87" Subject: Re: [LML] Hot TITs on X country leg. LIVP X-Original-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:05:24 -0600 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) --Apple-Mail=_651ACE84-4D0A-4693-A1A3-1A6EFFB85B87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 John: Single mag (single source ignition) results in the burn taking longer = and a later thetaPP. The result is that the burning gasses do not = expand as much so the temperature does not fall as much leading to a = measured higher EGT/TIT. Remember high school physics where PV =3D nRT? = It is NOT from the charge burning in the exhaust, it is from less = expansion of the F:A charge. What I am sure also happened was a lower = CHT. Walter Atkinson (225) 939-7508 On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:36 AM, John Barrett wrote: Time to fess up. The failure mode turned out to be a failed electronic = ignition system. I run one Plasma III lightspeed and one mag. The = lightspeed quit and I didn't recognize it. It had to have happened = during climb out or at level off. The run up prior to take off was = entirely normal. =20 The hot TIT's and EGT's were the result of incomplete fuel burn by the = mag that was the only ignition still running. Fuel in the exhaust = stacks burns in the turbines and heats everything up real fast. I don't = understand why leaning made it worse though. Can anyone explain that? Lest anyone jump on Klaus, let me be quick to admit it was not a failure = of his system but rather an installation defect. As a matter of fact = he got on the phone with me on a weekend day and helped trouble shoot = it. He overnighted a loaner to me when I didn't have enough tools or = access to do adequate system checks and did not laugh at me too badly = when the loaner did not fix the problem. A check of the ground for the = power circuit showed about 2 Kohms resistance. The fix was to wire in = another ground. Best regards, John Barrett N31VP Sent from my iPad On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Greg Milnar wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello John, >=20 > I am sorry that I missed out on the LOBO fly in discussion of your = event.=20 > I have been watching the thread for the answer but I must have missed = it if the question was answered. Please let me know what you learned. >=20 > I have a question about the new dimension of the rub rail material = past its retaining bracket on the main gear doors. I put the quire out = to LML but did not receive any responses. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Greg Milnar >=20 > 651 738 3117 >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: John Barrett [mailto:2thman1@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:11 PM > To: John Barrett > Subject: Hot TITs on X country leg. LIVP >=20 > Hello all, >=20 >=20 > We returned home yesterday from East Coast visits following LOBO mtg = in Greenville, SC. >=20 >=20 > On the way to Greenville after an intermediate stop in NE, we = experienced an engine problem that I brought to the attention of anyone = at LOBO who would listen and give advice including Neil George from TCM = with Allen Barrett hooked into the discussion by text and cell phone. =20= >=20 > The short story is that when I reached my planned VFR altitude of = 15,500 and levelled off I pulled back power but forgot to lean or reset = prop for about ten minutes. Then when I remembered and tried to lean = the engine, TITs skyrocketed followed by hot EGT readings. See the = attached link to the Savvyanalysisgraphing of the engine behavior and = see if you can come up with what went wrong. When you review the = graph, you=92ll likely notice that I tried twice more after the initial = leaning to see if I could get lean of peak and the engine emphatically = let me know it did NOT like what I was doing. >=20 >=20 > I can tell you the problem has been resolved and we flew the airplane = around the country for another week with no repeats. Now I'm interested = to know what LMLers might think caused this because I was totally = surprised when I learned what the real problem was. >=20 > Some of you who were supportive at LOBO already know the answer so = let=92s see what others come up with. I have many people to thank for = amazing help in finding and correcting the problem so I want to go on = record as one of the most appreciative people there could be for LOBO, = our many vendors and for pilots around the airport in Greenville who = gave advice, time, materials, loaned tools and so on. >=20 >=20 > = https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/402058/a3f088f6-4add-464e-99c7-38fd29= 2628b1 >=20 > Best regards, > John Barrett >=20 > N31VP=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_651ACE84-4D0A-4693-A1A3-1A6EFFB85B87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Walter Atkinson
<walter@advancedpilot.com><= /div>
(225) 939-7508





On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:36 = AM, John Barrett wrote:

Time to fess up.  The failure mode turned out to = be a failed electronic ignition system.  I run one Plasma III = lightspeed and one mag.  The lightspeed quit and I didn't recognize = it.  It had to have happened during climb out or at level off. =  The run up prior to take off was entirely normal. =  

The hot TIT's and EGT's were the result = of incomplete fuel burn by the mag that was the only ignition still = running.   Fuel in the exhaust stacks burns in the turbines and = heats everything up real fast.  I don't understand why leaning made = it worse though.  Can anyone explain = that?

Lest anyone jump on Klaus, let me be = quick to admit it was not a failure of his system but rather  an = installation defect.   As a matter of fact he  got on the = phone with me on a weekend day and helped trouble shoot it.  He = overnighted a loaner to me when I didn't have enough tools or access to = do adequate system checks and did not laugh at me too badly when the = loaner did not fix the problem.  A check of the ground for the = power circuit showed about 2 Kohms resistance.  The fix was to wire = in another ground.

Best regards,
John = Barrett
N31VP

Sent from my = iPad


On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Greg = Milnar <greg456pw@gmail.com> = wrote:





Hello = John,

I am sorry that = I missed out on the LOBO fly in discussion of your = event. 
I have been = watching the thread for the answer but I must have missed it if the = question was answered.  Please let me know what you = learned.

I have a = question about the new dimension of the rub rail material past its = retaining bracket on the main gear doors.  I put the quire out to = LML but did not receive any responses.

Thanks,

Greg Milnar

651 738 3117


From: John Barrett [mailto:2thman1@gmail.com] 
<= b>Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:11 = PM
To: John Barrett
Subject: Hot TITs on X = country leg. LIVP

Hello all,

We returned home yesterday from East Coast visits = following LOBO mtg in Greenville, SC.

On the way to Greenville after an intermediate stop = in NE, we experienced an engine problem that I brought to the attention = of anyone at LOBO who would listen and give advice including = Neil George from TCM with Allen Barrett hooked into the discussion = by text and cell phone.  

The short story is that when I reached my planned VFR = altitude of 15,500 and levelled off I pulled back power but forgot to = lean or reset prop for about ten minutes.  Then when I remembered = and tried to lean the engine, TITs skyrocketed followed by hot EGT = readings.  See the attached link to the Savvyanalysisgraphing = of the engine behavior and see if you can come up with what went = wrong.   When you review the graph, you=92ll likely notice = that I tried twice more after the initial leaning to see if I could get = lean of peak and the engine emphatically let me know it did  NOT = like what I was doing.

I can tell you the problem has been resolved = and we flew the airplane around the country for another week with = no repeats.  Now I'm interested to know what LMLers might think = caused this because I was totally surprised when I learned what the = real problem was.

Some of you who were = supportive at LOBO already know the answer so let=92s see what others = come up with.   I have many people to thank for amazing help = in finding and correcting the problem so I want to go on record as one = of the most appreciative people there could be for LOBO, our many = vendors and for pilots around the airport in Greenville who gave advice, = time, materials, loaned tools and so on.



= --Apple-Mail=_651ACE84-4D0A-4693-A1A3-1A6EFFB85B87--