X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 07:55:32 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.90.90] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6549993 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:56:25 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.90.90; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.51] by nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2013 03:55:50 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.161] by tm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2013 03:55:50 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1062.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2013 03:55:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 911875.51995.bm@omp1062.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 28617 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Oct 2013 03:55:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=1iiB5LYVVYwD+gGM0jx3X7wy4mxVEC7wdTEF1J/iti5HXRhsrmtIthWbAfgjJxSGLFVhsZgPT/F+NESlleb2ibQ9AUlzjQMDfPsFIBzfqGFLP1Sk/SsjEfQ1N8T1ETzv4+4v63MardjxuCWCsU7VKUYy2lRu1KsFyTb/iZevA+8=; X-YMail-OSG: yoTCBj8VM1m39Mn4iigwmii7emupVD0.eYHE94dI0.SaEYq yGhwLYJDDFeV7UBJB2lauXAeb4wxCTBxX8Yw6zkyxOp0We73ySh2rIysuhVO 95GzmR5Zx3wCIpLgZwn2p0UIFtoJvboLktGQQG8g4qjFChk3XTrnLBmnWUDE Eb.8HQd8exlIUkhm.qAkX2TPAihpB0EAS8ChWhK2Ul57fDtGd8ezF8kl4wPV 7WTks7KXmXHt8fF1tT0FNxmRzf3Zr6gikVy2LrCdWmuwQho8pPiYfz44JOA4 tYdpu4j1dLRLNOO0yLDq4VtQXN1wuzp87GJWedO0aAMugqTtqjthDKU1ranL v6DnPVfn1yTjcoZkHF1Bh4cgyIqz93ji4c66gapFYvqybmtnkzxlC205YjTl 4yEA3ld5kp1md5DKPefBi5ZkvoXXrDp5VUPYEOwyDYKoJhi_BlkxhbXXzoR_ 81iZ46rRdkhlfaXIz01FtpthtuEq_uNkN7N0ExNfwjHAoWg2rI.2qgtxeoZG Lkx_0bLw.38ZHGwDK1LjmviuU980m_G1nfxKsD_Eilgcig2uVpG7fO6vjnb0 KmWDIUj8rJiHw2UB7.FdzAs9d2518nrn.lv3pFv94RV53vOTWJ1pi9QmTu3M 05U97kibzhS_TktxSPF1WbHTcruPnZeJ1WTQ6uRxus0spBcu0MWNvYrRfZH8 xN_5pfBugIJZDoi68kEwrarDih.FAwZxuH2_cj7W5ZZ35sFm_b_CBA4kQEN3 i Received: from [172.14.16.72] by web121605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:55:50 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,SSBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IGFncmVlIHdpdGggdGhpcyBsb2NhdGlvbiAob3Igb3RoZXLCoGVhc2lseSBhY2Nlc3NlZMKgbG9jYXRpb25zKSBmb3IgdGhlIGh5ZHJhdWxpYyBwdW1wLsKgIEkgaGF2ZSBhIHJlbW92YWJsZSBzZWF0IGJhY2sgYW5kIHdpdGggdGhlIHB1bXAgYmVoaW5kIHRoZSBzZWF0IEnCoGNhbiBkbyBhbGwgcHVtcCBtYWludGVuYW5jZSwgaW5jbHVkZSBjb21wbGV0ZSByZW1vdmFsLCB3aGlsZSBzdGFuZGluZyBuZXh0IHRvIHRoZSBwbGFuZS4KRWFzeSBhY2Nlc3MgdGVuZHMgdG8gZW5hYmxlIGFuZCABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.160.587 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1382414150.416.YahooMailNeo@web121605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:55:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Odyssey PC680 Batteries on Firewall -- Cool Enough? X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2053635335-1239965545-1382414150=:416" --2053635335-1239965545-1382414150=:416 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I completely agree with this location (or other=A0easily accessed=A0locatio= ns) for the hydraulic pump.=A0 I have a removable seat back and with the pu= mp behind the seat I=A0can do all pump maintenance, include complete remova= l, while standing next to the plane.=0AEasy access tends to enable and enco= urage good maintenance practices.=A0 Difficult access tends to discourage m= aintenance.=0A=A0=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Ahttp://www.n91cz.net/= =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, October 21, 2013 8:08 PM, "Greenbacks, UnLtd." wrote:=0A =0AOK, there is no good reason to have the weight = of the pump, relays, wiring and hydraulic plumbing that far aft.=0AThis is = not original thinking on my part, just common sense and following the advic= e of other builders who blazed this trail before me.=0AI don't know about t= he Legacy, but 235, 320 and 360 generally need help in the aft CG departmen= t.=0AJust for giggles, try servicing the pump and related systems located a= ft of the baggage compartment.=0AIt's not a pretty picture.=0AYou'll need t= o employ the services of a midget gerbil with superior digital dexterity.= =0AEven if you don't have an aft CG issue, you will need to remove the pump= and or relays some day.=0AI went through 3 relays and 2 emergency gear ext= ensions in the first ten hours before correctly installing diodes on the re= lays.=0AWithout the pump and relays behind the seat it would have been a ma= jor pain to trouble shoot and repair.=0A=0AWhile on the subject of aft CG a= nd at the risk of starting yet another food fight, I added a lot of unneces= sary (in my humble opinion) weight=0Ato my rudder in an attempt to achieve = 100=BA mass balance. I suspect my CG could have been an inch further forwar= d without all that=0Aextra lead in the rudder. Nevertheless, I have excelle= nt elevator trim throughout the entire speed envelope.=0A=0AAngier Ames=0AN= 4ZQ=0A74hrs=0A=0A=0AOn Oct 21, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Valin & Allyson Thorn wrot= e:=0A=0A> Hi Angier,=0A> =0A> Please let me know your arguments for mountin= g the hydraulic pump directly behind the seat. Really appreciate your exper= tise. =0A> =0A> Ralph was interested in this too, so copying him. =0A> =0A>= Thanks,=0A> =0A> Allyson=0A> =0A>> On Oct 21, 2013, at 1:30 PM, "Greenback= s, UnLtd." wrote:=0A>> =0A>> Hi Valin,=0A>> =0A>> Move y= our hydraulic pump from its current location.=0A>> Create a small bulkhead = and put the pump directly behind your seat.=0A>> The reasons are too numero= us to list!=0A>> Don't even think twice about making this change.=0A>> Equa= lly important, locate your pump breaker within easy reach on your panel.=0A= >> =0A>> Angier Ames=0A>> N4ZQ=0A>> 69hrs=0A>> =0A>> --=0A>> For archives a= nd unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=0A=0A=0A--=0A= For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --2053635335-1239965545-1382414150=:416 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I completely agree with this location (or other&nb= sp;easily accessed locations) for the hydraulic pump.  I have a r= emovable seat back and with the pump behind the seat I can do all pump= maintenance, include complete removal, while standing next to the plane.
Easy access tends to enable and encourage good mainte= nance practices.  Difficult access tends to discourage maintenance.
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
http://www.n91cz.net/


On Monday, October 2= 1, 2013 8:08 PM, "Greenbacks, UnLtd." <n4zq@verizon.net> wrote:
<= /font>
OK, there is no good reason t= o have the weight of the pump, relays, wiring and hydraulic plumbing that f= ar aft.
This is not original thinking on my part, just common sense and = following the advice of other builders who blazed this trail before me.
= I don't know about the Legacy, but 235, 320 and 360 generally need help in = the aft CG department.
Just for giggles, try servicing the pump and rela= ted systems located aft of the baggage compartment.
It's not a pretty pi= cture.
You'll need to employ the services of a midget gerbil with superi= or digital dexterity.
Even if you don't have an aft CG issue, you will n= eed to remove the pump and or relays some day.
I went through 3 relays and = 2 emergency gear extensions in the first ten hours before correctly install= ing diodes on the relays.
Without the pump and relays behind the seat it= would have been a major pain to trouble shoot and repair.

While on = the subject of aft CG and at the risk of starting yet another food fight, I= added a lot of unnecessary (in my humble opinion) weight
to my rudder i= n an attempt to achieve 100=BA mass balance. I suspect my CG could have bee= n an inch further forward without all that
extra lead in the rudder. Nev= ertheless, I have excellent elevator trim throughout the entire speed envel= ope.

Angier Ames
N4ZQ
74hrs


On Oct 21, 2013, at 6:1= 3 PM, Valin & Allyson Thorn wrote:

> Hi Angier,
>
&= gt; Please let me know your arguments for mounting the hydraulic pump direc= tly behind the seat. Really appreciate your expertise.
>
> Ralph was interested in this too, so copying him.
>
&g= t; Thanks,
>
> Allyson
>
>> On Oct 21, 2013, a= t 1:30 PM, "Greenbacks, UnLtd." <N4ZQ@VERIZON.NET> wrote:
>>= ;
>> Hi Valin,
>>
>> Move your hydraulic pump = from its current location.
>> Create a small bulkhead and put the = pump directly behind your seat.
>> The reasons are too numerous to= list!
>> Don't even think twice about making this change.
>= > Equally important, locate your pump breaker within easy reach on your = panel.
>>
>> Angier Ames
>> N4ZQ
>> 69= hrs
>>
>> --
>> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=


--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.= net:81/lists/lml/List.html

<= /body> --2053635335-1239965545-1382414150=:416--