X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.108.133] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6486828 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:03:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.108.133; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.201]) by omr-d09.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4E6CD7013AF6E for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtb001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.193]) by mtaomg-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 22F5CE00008A for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:02:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <74b73.4bf07456.3f71ce25@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: anti-skid (ABS) brakes on the Lancair To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_74b73.4bf07456.3f71ce25_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1379955751; bh=BJx6JTeXfu3qzL39cGE6wyX1W6PfPCdDC34ND0dcewU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=C9AOZG3tRGjrnKk2V4mUYhOn4QewRwsOIwQohhjChYE52coYYNeydbS0Fq91teB7K piaFhj47BCCYVZKX7SpEar3HEcNG6532/Nv/QQuOlvAx3jbB9iB81nU7Fy9ZzYdaXO AvL49mXMentyKaXTFI1krhBOfHgEEwzrbQz+RpXw= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c9524074272fba --part1_74b73.4bf07456.3f71ce25_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, et al, Notes on 320/360 series Having done most of my flying in the mid west, I have landed on wide long runways when the tower was reporting "braking conditions poor" and that often meant dry spots intermixed with icy/snowy ones. ABS on each main wheel (independent of each other) could have been beneficial but I generally found comfort on a longer runway where I could avoid using the brakes until control was possible at a low speed. Ultimately, I needed them thar things for turning - dang......... Snow covered runways were easy. The TK-5s (Ong's Debongers) were essential as the stiff, cold donut suspension never gave good tire contact on an uneven surface, especially if the surface was slippery. If a runway is actually completely covered in ice, a strong crosswind could mean that you might be blown off to the side whether you had ABS or not (uh, weather-vaning in our wee aircraft can be useful sometimes). Enjoy the coming winter, Grayhawk PS Check your Farmer's Almanac for predicted conditions in your area. In a message dated 9/23/2013 11:26:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mehapgood@gmail.com writes: If it was an icy runway I don't think I'd want to be landing my little Lancair there! Matt On Sep 23, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Colyn Case wrote: > Interesting question. > I think there would be some new design involved to deal with the differential aspect. > Imagine you have ice under the right main and bare pavement under the left. You probably want the braking on the left reduced to match the right. Yet with bare pavement on both mains, you want to be able to command a turn. > > You might get away with a "landing" mode which forces the two to match (sorry, no help in a cross wind). Then you would turn the landing mode off to taxi. > > All in, if you have an icy runway, you might be better off with a reversible prop and no ABS. > > Colyn > > On Sep 23, 2013, at 8:08 AM, jeffrey liegner wrote: > > I was at the airport on this beautiful Fall day and another builder (RV6) asked me about installing an ABS braking system on the Lancair to help with stopping (without creating a flat spot). He reports that even BMW motocycles have anti-skid brakes. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system > BMW Motocycle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Absbrakes.jpg > > Has anyone given anti-skid (ABS) brakes any consideration in the Lancair? Just curious. > > Jeff L > LIVP > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_74b73.4bf07456.3f71ce25_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Matt, et al,
 
Notes on 320/360 series
 
Having done most of my flying in the mid west, I have landed on wide l= ong=20 runways when the tower was reporting "braking conditions poor" and that oft= en=20 meant dry spots intermixed with icy/snowy ones.  ABS on each=20 main wheel (independent of each other) could have been beneficial= but=20 I generally found comfort on a longer runway where I could avoid using the= =20 brakes until control was possible at a low speed.  Ultimately, I neede= d=20 them thar things for turning - dang......... 
 
Snow covered runways were easy.
 
The TK-5s (Ong's Debongers) were essential as the stiff, col= d=20 donut suspension never gave good tire contact on an uneven surface,=20 especially if the surface was slippery.    
 
If a runway is actually completely covered in ice, a strong= =20 crosswind could mean that you might be blown off to the side whether y= ou=20 had ABS or not (uh, weather-vaning in our wee aircraft can be use= ful=20 sometimes).
 
Enjoy the coming winter,
 
Grayhawk
 
PS Check your Farmer's Almanac for predicted conditions in your area.<= /DIV>
 
In a message dated 9/23/2013 11:26:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 mehapgood@gmail.com writes:
= If it=20 was an icy runway I don't think I'd want to be landing my little Lancair= =20 there!

Matt

On Sep 23, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Colyn Case=20 <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Interesting=20 question.
> I think there would be some new design involved to deal= with=20 the differential aspect.
> Imagine you have ice under the right ma= in=20 and bare pavement under the left. You probably want the braking on the le= ft=20 reduced to match the right.   Yet with bare pavement on both ma= ins,=20 you want to be able to command a turn.  
>
> You = might=20 get away with a "landing" mode which forces the two to match (sorry, no h= elp=20 in a cross wind).   Then you would turn the landing mode off to= =20 taxi.
>
> All in, if you have an icy runway, you might be be= tter=20 off with a reversible prop and no ABS.
>
> Colyn
> >=20 On Sep 23, 2013, at 8:08 AM, jeffrey liegner wrote:
>
> I wa= s at=20 the airport on this beautiful Fall day and another builder (RV6) asked me= =20 about installing an ABS braking system on the Lancair to help with stoppi= ng=20 (without creating a flat spot).  He reports that even BMW motocycles= have=20 anti-skid brakes.
>
>=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
> BMW Motocyc= le:=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Absbrakes.jpg
>
> Has anyo= ne=20 given anti-skid (ABS) brakes any consideration in the Lancair?  Just= =20 curious.
>
> Jeff L
> LIVP
>
> --
>= For=20 archives and unsub=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
>
> >=20 --
> For archives and unsub=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

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