X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:31:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from omr-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.222.129] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6413506 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:23:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.222.129; envelope-from=n5276j@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.77]) by omr-m08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 2412F700000BE for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mla002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mla002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.186.80]) by mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id B0669E000082 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:22:41 -0400 (EDT) References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter failed In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: steve X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D065093154DEB6_B40_4B5A1_webmail-vm015.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37966-STANDARD Received: from 70.193.196.130 by webmail-vm015.sysops.aol.com (64.12.251.120) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:22:41 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8D065093148F7D6-B40-1803E@webmail-vm015.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [70.193.196.130] X-Original-Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:22:41 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294d52082ad12558 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D065093154DEB6_B40_4B5A1_webmail-vm015.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hey John, A good friend and flying buddy of mine has a Legacy that just went through = this. He did not have to move the engine. He remove the studs so the adap= ter could be removed. I can give you his contact if you want to chat with h= im and get the details first hand. Steve Alderman N25SA 360 -----Original Message----- From: John Smith To: lml Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2013 5:11 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter failed Hi All, Well =E2=80=93 its happened - the dreaded starter adapter failure at ~90hr= s TTIS!! The engine was delivered late 2008 and and was first used in flight late 20= 10 =E2=80=93 so I'm well out of warranty time period. Anyways, beyond a fe= w hints a few hours prior, almost continuous slipping started almost overni= ght =E2=80=93 very difficult to get a start, and nearly got stuck a little = way from home. I did end up installing the Skytec at about 70hours. It ran the starts like= a trooper, until=E2=80=A6.. The ST3 seems to test fine according to Skyte= c recommended checks. As I still have the the old Iskra starter, I'm thinki= ng of installing this just to make absolutely certain that it is the adapte= r, and not the starter motor =E2=80=93 but its a very long shot as I think = the ST3 is, not surprisingly, absolutely fine. For what its worth, I can turn the starter adapter shaft quite easily both = ways, but may be only a quarter of a turn or so before sensing a "spring re= sistance" feel and, if one lets go of the shaft, it just "springs back" - s= ame in both directions of rotation. I'll be talking to engine engineers on= Monday, but does this all sound like a failed adapter? My main question now =E2=80=93 has anyone had any experience of replacing t= he starter adapter on the IO-550 in a Legacy? Can it be done by lifting the= engine off the engine mount and moving it forwards a few inches? If this i= s possible then it might come down to "just" disconnecting governor and thr= ottle cables (may be mixture), remove a few cable ties to wiring and P-clam= ps on fuel lines, and unbolt the rear exhaust hangers? Make sense, or is it= really a case of engine right out? As it happens, the left hand side upper rear facing stud is really very lon= g, and it doesn't seem possible to pull the adapter off this stud without m= oving the engine forward (BTW - this stud has been installed with two space= rs setting the nut about 7/16 =E2=80=93 1/2" off the adapter housing itself= =E2=80=93 it is a TCM reman engine =E2=80=93 doesn't seem right to me, but= may be there's good reason?) Would be very grateful any tips and suggestions=E2=80=A6. Thanks! Regards, John =20 John N G Smith Tel / fax: +61-8-9385-8891 Mobile: +61-409-372-975 Email: john@jjts.net.au From: "pete@leapfrogventures.com" Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 2:46 AM To: Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter I would definitely go with the ST3 over the ST5. I did and am very happy w= ith it. =20 =20 As for the adapter, if you only have 50 hours, I would just replace the sta= rter and wait. If the adapter fails later, fix it then. As they say, if i= t=E2=80=99s not broke, don=E2=80=99t fix it. I guess the risk is you might= get stranded somewhere, but, as I recall when the adapter in my former Cir= rus started to slip, I could still start it once before it gave up the ghos= t. =20 Pete =20 From: John Smith [mailto:john@jjts.net.au]=20 Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:54 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter =20 Hi Ron, =20 No, it wasn't mine that was slipping but I'm on the case now to sort things= out before something fails. =20 I have a regular CMI starter adapter =E2=80=93 incidentally, one that does = not have a part number the subject of the AD 2012-10-13 issued recently (th= is one extended the applicability of the earlier AD on this subject to ALL = engines manufactured prior to Nov 2011 (not just in the period Jan 2011 to = Nov 2011); but I do have an ISKRA starter. =20 I had been thinking of replacing the ISKRA unit with the SkyTec C24ST3 (the= lower duty of the two suited to the IO550 =E2=80=93 being ..ST3 or ST5). =20 I noted your comments about the SkyTec unit "finishing the job"=E2=80=A6. I= 'm just wondering if that outcome might be related to the duff CMI starter = adapters the subject of this AD? In other words, whilst the ISKRA starter = does damage, certain starter adapters were doomed anyway? =20 My engine has about 50hours on it, and prob somewhere around 50 starts. =20 Whilst I like the light weight of the SkyTec ST3 unit (just over 6 lbs and = lower torque than the ST5, and my battery is in the back so SkyTec under th= is circumstance recommend the ST3 anyway), appreciate any views around whet= her the SkyTec is a good option or not, and whether I should be overhauling= the starter adapter? =20 Thanks! =20 Regards, John =20 ----------MB_8D065093154DEB6_B40_4B5A1_webmail-vm015.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Hey John,
 
A good friend and flying buddy of mine has a Legacy that just went thr= ough this.  He did not have to move the engine. He  remove t= he studs so the adapter could be removed. I can give you his contact if you= want to chat with him and get the details first hand.
 
Steve Alderman N25SA  360
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: John Smith <john@jjts.net.au>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2013 5:11 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter failed

Hi All,

Well =E2=80=93 its happened -  the dreaded starter adapter failur= e at ~90hrs TTIS!!

The engine was delivered late 2008 and and was first used in flight la= te 2010 =E2=80=93 so I'm well out of warranty time period.  Anyways, b= eyond a few hints a few hours prior, almost continuous slipping started alm= ost overnight =E2=80=93 very difficult to get a start, and nearly got stuck= a little way from home.

I did end up installing the Skytec at about 70hours. It ran the starts= like a trooper, until=E2=80=A6..  The ST3 seems to test fine accordin= g to Skytec recommended checks. As I still have the the old Iskra starter, = I'm thinking of installing this just to make absolutely certain that it is = the adapter, and not the starter motor =E2=80=93 but its a very long shot a= s I think the ST3 is, not surprisingly, absolutely fine.

For what its worth, I can turn the starter adapter shaft quite ea= sily both ways, but may be only a quarter of a turn or so before sensing a = "spring resistance" feel and, if one lets go of the shaft, it just "springs= back" - same in both directions of rotation.  I'll be talking to engi= ne engineers on Monday, but does this all sound like a failed adapter?

My main question now =E2=80=93 has anyone had any experience of replac= ing the starter adapter on the IO-550 in a Legacy? Can it be done by liftin= g the engine off the engine mount and moving it forwards a few inches? If t= his is possible then it might come down to "just" disconnecting governor an= d throttle cables (may be mixture), remove a few cable ties to wiring and P= -clamps on fuel lines, and unbolt the rear exhaust hangers? Make sense, or = is it really a case of engine right out?

As it happens, the left hand side upper rear facing stud is really ver= y long, and it doesn't seem possible to pull the adapter off this stud with= out moving the engine forward (BTW - this stud has been installed with two = spacers setting the nut about 7/16 =E2=80=93 1/2" off the adapter housing i= tself =E2=80=93 it is a TCM reman engine =E2=80=93 doesn't seem right to me= , but may be there's good reason?)

Would be very grateful any tips and suggestions=E2=80=A6. Thanks!



Regards,
John
John N G Smith
Tel / fax:    +61-8-9385-8891
Mobile:      +61-409-372-975
Email:         john@jjts.net.au


From: "pete@leapfrogventures.com" <pete@leapfrogventures.com>
Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List &= lt;lml@lancaironline.net> Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 2:46 = AM
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Starte= r/Starter Adapter

I would definitely go with the ST= 3 over the ST5.  I did and am very happy with it. 
 
As for the adapter, if you only h= ave 50 hours, I would just replace the starter and wait.  If the adapt= er fails later, fix it then.  As they say, if it=E2=80=99s not broke, = don=E2=80=99t fix it.  I guess the risk is you might get stranded some= where, but, as I recall when the adapter in my former Cirrus started to sli= p, I could still start it once before it gave up the ghost.
 
Pete=
 
 
Hi Ron,
 
No, it wasn't mine that was slipping but I'= m on the case now to sort things out before something fails.
 
I have a regular CMI starter adapter =E2=80= =93 incidentally, one that does not have a part number the subject of the A= D 2012-10-13 issued recently (this one extended the applicability of the ea= rlier AD on this subject to ALL engines manufactured prior to Nov 2011 (not= just in the period Jan 2011 to Nov 2011); but I do have an ISKRA starter.<= /span>
 
I had been thinking of replacing the ISKRA = unit with the SkyTec C24ST3 (the lower duty of the two suited to the IO550 = =E2=80=93 being ..ST3 or ST5).
 
I noted your comments about the SkyTec unit= "finishing the job"=E2=80=A6. I'm just wondering if that outcome might be = related to the duff CMI starter adapters the subject of this AD?  In o= ther words, whilst the ISKRA starter does damage, certain starter adapters = were doomed anyway?
 
My engine has about 50hours on it, and prob= somewhere around 50 starts.
 
Whilst I like the light weight of the SkyTe= c ST3 unit (just over 6 lbs and lower torque than the ST5, and my battery i= s in the back so SkyTec under this circumstance recommend the ST3 anyway), = appreciate any views around whether the SkyTec is a good option or not, and= whether I should be overhauling the starter adapter?
 
Thanks!
 


Regards,

John

 
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