X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.86] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6312834 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 07 Jun 2013 09:41:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.86; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.141]) by omr-m10.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id F21DE7007ECA5 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2013 09:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtb004a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.205]) by mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 85F5AE00008A for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2013 09:40:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <124a2e.bb4f8bd.3ee33ce8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 09:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_124a2e.bb4f8bd.3ee33ce8_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1370612456; bh=a4H5ItMUN8bxQyJVPVD9MjUinQjhUTph5ZHElvwhQCQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QAVhBBMIE+VZoNB10fa5VpJv7QXj+pd2USrawI5Cj/5JInFDUWA1QEv1n8+b0ym+i SY7a99evCkGPk3Iy2kK3POBwDgESmir6SkCbK3ygATGe2PQGHexsXAnFN2wIre2kVw DGbpmU8ONQSM2vIouq9y+tgxn7prDmsdHsvgfBQA= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:505382720:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338d51b1e2e84ec4 --part1_124a2e.bb4f8bd.3ee33ce8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, Dittos. Didn't Bob Belshe say he eventually retained the vortex generator only forward of the ailerons with better low speed control with them and less reduction in cruise speed. If ya add gap seals ya can get the cruise speed back and even increase control surface aukthority.............. Grayhawk In a message dated 6/7/2013 7:12:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes: Being somewhat interested in aircraft efficiency, two quotes from the VG website jumped out at me. On the Lancair page: " A 10 knot reduction in the stall speed; much better low speed handling and no reduction in the cruise speed." Then on the FAQ page: " At maximum power, you may experience a 0-4 mph reduction, but this depends on the particular aircraft. At normal cruising speed there is no noticeable reduction. " For me maximum power typically is cruise power. The speed loss will tend to be on the higher side in a low drag airframe. VGs locally energize the boundary layer to keep the flow attached. This takes energy. Unfortunately a nice laminar flow section is turned into a partially turbulent flow wing. Everything is a trade-off. A previous link on the LML to Bob Belshe's 235 VG mod also reported a reduction in cruise speed of a couple knots. Here is another link to a flight test report of a Bonanza with a VG upgrade. http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide_screen .pdf Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std _www.N91CZ.net_ (http://www.n91cz.net/) Sent from my spiffy iPad On Jun 4, 2013, at 3:55 AM, Rob Murawski <_rob@robmurawski.com_ (mailto:rob@robmurawski.com) > wrote: Nice info on the VG's! I've been contemplating whether to install the extended wingtips on my 360 MkII, now it looks like I have another option to reduce the stall speed. Assuming I even need that. This doesn't make the decision-making process any easier. -Rob Lancair 360MkII 15% Complete Pittsburgh, PA From: PETER WILLIAMS <_peterpawaviation@hotmail.com_ (mailto:peterpawaviation@hotmail.com) > Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List <_lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) > Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:42 AM To: <_lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) > Subject: [LML] VORTEX GENERATORS HI THERE here is the link for vortex generator kits for Lancair aircraft http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm i was very happy with the company and with the results peter williams = --part1_124a2e.bb4f8bd.3ee33ce8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
 
Dittos.  Didn't Bob Belshe say he eventually retained the vortex= =20 generator only forward of the ailerons with better low speed control with t= hem=20 and less reduction in cruise speed.  If ya add gap seals ya can get th= e=20 cruise speed back and even increase control surface=20 aukthority..............
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 6/7/2013 7:12:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes:
=
Being somewhat interested in aircraft efficiency, two quotes from th= e VG=20 website jumped out at me.

On the Lancair page:=20
"=20 A 10 knot reduction in the stall speed; much better low speed handling an= d=20 no reduction in the cruise speed."=20
Then on the FAQ page:
" At maximum power, you may experience a 0-4 mph reduction,=20 but this depends on the particular aircraft. At normal cruising spee= d=20 there is no noticeable reduction. "

For me maximum power typically is cruise power.  The spe= ed=20 loss will tend to be on the higher side in a low drag airframe.

VGs locally energize the boundary layer to keep the flow attached.= =20  This takes energy. Unfortunately a nice laminar flow section is tur= ned=20 into a partially turbulent flow wing. Everything is a trade-off.

A previous link on the LML to Bob Belshe's 235 VG mod also reported = a=20 reduction in cruise speed of a couple knots.

Here is another link to a flight test report of a Bonanza with a VG= =20 upgrade.
http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_= cruise_wide_screen.pdf=20

Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

Sent from my spiffy iPad

On Jun 4, 2013, at 3:55 AM, Rob Murawski <rob@robmurawski.com>=20 wrote:

Nice info on the VG's!  I've been contemplating whether to in= stall=20 the extended wingtips on my 360 MkII, now it looks like I have another= =20 option to reduce the stall speed.  Assuming I even need that.

This doesn't make the decision-making process any=20 easier.

-Rob
Lancair 360MkII
15% Complete
Pittsburgh, PA

From: PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.c= om>
Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List <<= A=20 title=3Dmailto:lml@lancaironline.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lml@lancaironline.net">lml@lancaironline.net>
= Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:42=20 AM
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
= Subject: [LML] VORTEX GENERATORS
=

HI THERE

here is the link for vortex generator ki= ts for=20 Lancair aircraft

http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm

i was ver= y happy=20 with the company and with the results

peter=20 williams
=3D
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