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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 09:12:50 -0400
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Subject: Re: [LML] Andair's explanation
From: Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com>
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I may not "need" to replace the selector as stated.  The selector is =
hard mounted with no flex on those lines you have shown in the PDF.   I =
have the inspection covers off permanently so I can check the banjos and =
selector connections for leaks as they have been problematic in the =
past.

The difference in my installation is the gascolator is attached by one =
connection through the firewall, flex and vibration including torque =
from detaching the cup all load those little screws on the inlet side.  =
Those loads are not to the mount or body of the gascolator.   Its quite =
a different setup.  If the gascolator mount was firewall mounted so the =
loads were to the mount, then I agree with you.  Perhaps everyone else =
has done that but I believe my install is the factory suggestion.  Add a =
shroud and some lines and the loads increase.

Since the andair product is not certified I was not able to see it in =
the SDR database.  I don't believe that is a result of zero problems in =
the past but it could be.  However, I still believe a safety wire/ cap =
screw setup is far easier to secure and inspect than "stagged" or small =
screws that use a thread locker.  For a fuel connection, this is clearly =
the weakest point in the system from my perspective notwithstanding the =
selector might be #2.

Paul

On 2013-06-07, at 8:11 AM, "Steve Colwell" <mcmess1919@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>=20
> If the little screws that retain the fuel connectors on your =
Gascolator are
> unacceptable, you will need to replace your Andair Fuel Selector Valve =
too.
> Exploded (poor choice of terms) view =
http://www.andair.co.uk/pix/2520-3.jpg
>=20
>=20
> With all the Lancairs flying (and thousands of RV's), most with Andair
> Gascolators and Fuel Valves, yours is the first one I have heard of =
with
> this problem.  Since these fittings are not normally removed for
> maintenance, you may want to consider repairing your Gascolator as =
Andy
> suggests.  I think they make a high quality, low maintenance, well =
designed
> Gascolator.  But like all aircraft components, they should be =
carefully
> inspected at Annual.=20
>=20
> Steve Colwell   Legacy
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =
Paul
> Miller
> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
> To: lml@lancaironline.net
> Subject: [LML] Andair's explanation
>=20
> LML: Here is the latest explanation of how Andair deals with the =
locking
> screws on the gascolator connections. I'd like to toss a challenge to =
the
> group to find a simple solution to this weak link.  I would be happy =
to
> replace the Andair unit with a metal body, cartridge style, fuel =
filter with
> standard fittings similar in strength to the fuel lines.  none of the =
high
> performance vehicles seem to use the Andair style, they use robust, =
solid,
> mountable, aluminum bodies with standard fittings.  However, I'm =
certain
> there are issues for bypass, flow, pressure drop and so forth.  If =
someone
> has an alternative that has been reviewed that's the simplest answer.  =
The
> integrity of our fuel lines and fittings disappears once we insert =
this
> Andair device which is protected only by 2 o-rings and 8 small, =
non-locking
> screws.
>=20
> Paul
> Legacy
>=20
> On 2013-06-05, at 10:51 AM, Andair <andair@andair.co.uk> wrote:
>=20
>> Dear Paul,
>>           When we offered the feature of being able to move the =
primary
> fitting almost 20 years ago now,( remember this only applies to
> EF20,FF20,FF20-A, FF25and EF25 all other fittings are stagged here in =
the
> factory) it was considered to be very useful for the builder.It was =
then up
> to the builder or inspector that was signing off that part of the =
build to
> establish as to whether the screws had been securly fixed either =
loctite or
> damaged into the vacant half hole.
>>        To "stag" the countersunk screw is a recognised proceedure. =
We, at
> Andair, cannot loctite the screws in as there is no visual evidence =
that the
> screw is locked in a position  therefore it is damaged to show.
>>       The problem comes as I see it when no third person carries out =
an
> inspection and writes it in the log book that it has been checked. On =
the
> aircraft I have built where it is considered to be a critical fuction =
or
> area e.g. engine controls, fuel systems, flight controls etc there is =
a
> section in the log book that is required to be signed. This may not be
> foolproof but it goes some way to offset these types of problems.
>>             Lastly when the aeroplane has been built flown a while =
and
> then sold on, inspecting everything can be very teadious.
>>           I hope you manage to read this and it be of some help.
>>=20
>> Kind Regards
>>      Andy Phillips
>>=20
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Miller" <pjdm@slx.ca>
>> To: "Andair" <andair@andair.co.uk>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 10:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: gascolator failure
>>=20
>>=20
>> I'm looking at a couple of installations here and I can't see any =
that
> have incorporated the "stagging".   I'll ask the other Legacy owner =
here to
> check his screws and see if they have backed off at all.   Thanks for =
that
> update. It would seem a more certain style of lock is preferable.  =
Your
> banjo fittings on the fuel selector are safety wired.  If the =
countersunk
> screws had cap screws with drilled heads, they could be safety wired =
in
> place and would never cause this problem.  Dumping fuel into the =
engine area
> must not have a risk.   "stagging" does not appear to be a common =
practice
> or one that works particularly well in this case.  Andair might want =
to
> consider a safety upgrade on the design.
>>=20
>> Paul Miller
>> On 2013-06-05, at 4:38 AM, "Andair" <andair@andair.co.uk> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Dear Paul,
>>>          When a Gascolator or Fuel Selector is dispatched from the
> factory with female fittings, the fittings are just pushed on the body =
and a
> screw pack complete with Allen key is supplied in the box.
>>> The reason for this is when the builder wants to position say a =
90deg or
> 45 deg fitting it never tightens at the correct angle, so in all other =
cases
> it is overtightened or is too slack. So, in our case the fitting can =
be
> taken off and arranged at 90deg increments, thereby establishing the =
correct
> torque on the fitting. Andair suggest that the fitting then be =
"stagged"
> (the countersunk screw holding the fitting to the body be damaged to =
prevent
> the screw "backing out" there is a small half hole in the fitting for =
that
> purpose) If this function cannot be carried out then Loctite should be =
used.
>>>       Regards
>>>                 Andy Phillips
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Miller" <pjdm@slx.ca>
>>> To: <andair@andair.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:03 PM
>>> Subject: gascolator failure
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> we have a failure on this gascolator.  removed for a stuck cup, the
> firewall side was missing three screws and about to fail =
catastrophically.
> Staining evident under the shroud.   Missing screws do not appear to =
be
> locked and remaining screws are loose and not locked either.  Photos =
are at
> :
>>>=20
>>>=20
> =
http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/pjdmiller/library/andair%20gascolator%20=
fa
> ilure%20Lancair%20Legacy
>>>=20
>>> Suggest this is a major issue for other aircraft, looking for some
> guidance, probably SDR submission or more.  This is an engine fire =
waiting
> to happen if other units are in the same condition.
>>>=20
>>> Paul Miller
>>> Florida
>>> N357V=3D
>>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20
>=20
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