X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 16:44:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc3-s12.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.150] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6310084 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:44:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.190.150; envelope-from=peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Received: from BAY152-W49 ([65.54.190.188]) by bay0-omc3-s12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 5 Jun 2013 19:44:15 -0700 X-TMN: [epHPF5HOr8SFMnqJGlJwNFXft2RNSTu9] X-Originating-Email: [peterpawaviation@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_1d3ddef3-8cd0-4f1c-8191-1dc65d439bb0_" From: PETER WILLIAMS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] Stall technique X-Original-Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 22:44:15 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2013 02:44:15.0840 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC26D600:01CE625F] --_1d3ddef3-8cd0-4f1c-8191-1dc65d439bb0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable JACK My hope is to never need the reduce stall speed or the safe limits that an = AOA shows.=20 but=20 say at 300 altitude with a sudden engine stoppage when i need it. i will really need it or at 90 knots in landing configuration. a child runs onto the runway when i need it. i will really need it it is a little like looking in the cowling for a birds nest=3B i went 1= 9 years before i saw one that could have started a fire. were those years of looking wasted? no that day i needed it. i really needed it to me it is not for the normal situation=2C it for the unexpected. for the = unwanted situation. for the emergency i did not ask for. (for the moment when my ability to maintain 100 knots is impaired) peter =20 To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed=2C 5 Jun 2013 14:58:23 -0400 From: jmorgan1023@comcast.net Subject: [LML] Stall technique The proper technique for stall demonstration/recovery is ailerons centered = and rudder as required to keep the wings level. Using the ailerons at the s= tall onset aggravates the departure in most airplanes... high performance o= r not. Proper rudder use and centered ailerons are important for safe stall= s and very slow flight in any airplane. When near stall using the rudder to= pick up the low wing is mandatory. (Looking forward to the Ercoupe folks c= himing in.... he he) I am intrigued why we care what the stall speed is for a IV. Given that the= sink rate is so high anywhere near that speed=2C it is both a dangerous an= d useless part of the envelope. Regardless of the choices the pilot has mad= e regarding VG's or AOA's=2C proper speed management in a IV is mandatory a= nd should remain the primary focus of the pilot. I understand that adding items that allow us to improperly handle the airpl= ane and get away with it may improve safety but relying on such "fixes" is = problematic. Proper training and technique should be the primary focus....e= specially in high performance Lancair aircraft. Jack Morgan On Jun 5=2C 2013=2C at 6:00 AM=2C Lancair Mailing List wrote: This is consistent with some limited VG experiments Len made on my airplane= .In other words=2C you still have limited to no aileron authority at the st= all.Len did do some experiments that resulted better characteristics at the= stall but higher stall speed.An interesting question is "Would you rather = have more control at a higher stall speed or less control at a lower stall = speed?" = --_1d3ddef3-8cd0-4f1c-8191-1dc65d439bb0_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
JACK

My hope is to never need the reduce stall speed or the safe limits = that an AOA shows.
 =3B =3B but
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B say at 300 altitude with a= sudden engine stoppage
 =3B =3B when i need it. =3B i will really need it
 =3B =3B = =3B or
=  =3Bat= 90 knots in landing configuration. a child runs onto the runway
 =3B =3B when i nee= d it. =3B i will really need it

 =3B =3B =3B it is a little like looking in the co= wling for a birds nest=3B i went 19 years before i saw one that could have = started a fire.
w= ere those years of looking wasted?
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B no
that day i needed it. = =3B i really needed it

= to me it is not for the normal situation=2C it for the unexpected. for the = unwanted situation. for the emergency i did not ask for.
(for the moment when my = ability to maintain 100 knots is impaired)

peter
 =3B =3B =3B
=

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Wed= =2C 5 Jun 2013 14:58:23 -0400
From: jmorgan1023@comcast.net
Subject: = [LML] Stall technique

The proper technique for stall demonstration/r= ecovery is ailerons centered and rudder as required to keep the wings level= . Using the ailerons at the stall onset aggravates the departure in most ai= rplanes... high performance or not. Proper rudder use and centered ailerons= are important for safe stalls and very slow flight in any airplane. When n= ear stall using the rudder to pick up the low wing is mandatory. (Looking f= orward to the Ercoupe folks chiming in.... he he)

I am i= ntrigued why we care what the stall speed is for a IV. Given that the sink = rate is so high anywhere near that speed=2C it is both a dangerous and usel= ess part of the envelope. Regardless of the choices the pilot has made rega= rding VG's or AOA's=2C proper speed management in a IV is mandatory and sho= uld remain the primary focus of the pilot.

I under= stand that adding items that allow us to improperly handle the airplane and= get away with it may improve safety but relying on such "fixes" is problem= atic. Proper training and technique should be the primary focus....especial= ly in high performance Lancair aircraft.

Jack Morgan=

On Jun 5=2C 2013=2C at 6:00 AM=2C Lancair Mailing = List wrote:

This is consistent with some limited VG experiment= s Len made on my airplane.
In other words=2C you still have limite= d to no aileron authority at the stall.
Len did do some experiments that res= ulted better characteristics at the stall but higher stall speed.
An interes= ting question is "Would you rather have more control at a higher stall spee= d or less control at a lower stall speed?"


= = --_1d3ddef3-8cd0-4f1c-8191-1dc65d439bb0_--