X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 10:06:48 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from carbinge.com ([69.5.27.218] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with SMTP id 6308519 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Jun 2013 10:01:14 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.5.27.218; envelope-from=jbarrett@carbinge.com Received: (qmail 10763 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2013 14:00:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; h=X-Originating-IP:Reply-To:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Content-Language:Thread-Index; s=default; d=carbinge.com; b=kdGx0M5D9yY1RwX1RkbLrsbHxH0HG6OSXaInHlFTUMch+TpgFFNjSwCfmGpUAyQZJm/d6Vq3sLwnMC9q7yZsJMJd2fVWvLxSI/rmW4lDKxObZev7kFavRzLLbOu47bmVnMUQf7aCCRkoyCNzUm+ywJPqAcayRxkiL+4nEwMIuxs=; X-Originating-IP: [24.56.209.218] Reply-To: From: "John Barrett" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS ask the vender X-Original-Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 07:00:29 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <00fc01ce61f5$0ed25430$2c76fc90$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00FD_01CE61BA.62737C30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: Ac5h6/GqRGjsecX5S5ildn7MboyhOwACDMyA This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01CE61BA.62737C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, Here is an internet link - result of search for "Lancair stall strips". http://mysearch.avg.com/search?cid={DF67323F-EA5D-4845-9C48-B1AE78F50130}&mi d=87fd74441dc0e1a71d1e6db14a570ecb-2b7c2e163abc66063bcba19b555719dba35a89ba& lang=en&ds=AVG&pr=fr&d=2013-01-26 08:12:28&v=14.2.0.1&pid=safeguard&sg=1&sap=dsp&q=lancair+stall+strips There seem to be quite a few references. The first hit is Mark's notes from one of our Lancair Builder's meetings that demonstrates much of his thinking at the time. We had a group of about 12 different IV projects for a decade or so here in WA state. There is a more definitive paper he wrote I recall that discusses his research and experiments with the strips, leading him to conclusions of their efficacy. I believe test pilots were involved and the strips were tried in numerous places until the best results were achieved. Sorry I can 't be more specific. John Barrett N31VP --- no stall strips ---- yet. From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of PETER WILLIAMS Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 5:55 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS ask the vender hi there i would love to learn more about the stall strips. are there photos? is there any design data? drawings? i asked Len Fox about stall strips and i did not get a clear answer such as you are giving. Well he is a test pilot and does write a concise report of conditions. thanks for any leads or information that you might have peter _____ To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:05:46 -0400 From: 2thman1@gmail.com Subject: [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS ask the vender Peter, One additional thought. Mark Kirchner of Mercer Island, a Boeing engineer, designed stall strips years ago. He gave me my first lesson in composite work while he was building his Lancair. These strips have been thoroughly tested by Len Fox and others. They don't lower any of the critical speeds, but they do provide aileron control and more docile departures during a stall in this unforgiving beast. Mark passed away a few years ago but his idea was a good one and lots of IV's have safer performance because of it. John Sent from my iPad On Jun 4, 2013, at 11:08 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote: Peter, The web site does say all you are reporting except the fact that Len Fox has done some testing, I assume for you? Was that on a IVP? They also don't identify themselves by name or credentials and I had not heard of them. Thanks, John Sent from my iPad On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:08 AM, PETER WILLIAMS wrote: JOHN len in his analytical way reported the reduction of stall speed (he did a before and after) i was hoping that when we put the VG at 8% of chord we could improve aerolon authority at or near the stall. no such luck. len had no negative thoughts, as far as i know, about the VGs from my conversations with the supplier, they had done VG for certified airplanes prior to developing VGs for Lancairs. call them, they are very forthcoming peter _____ To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:55:19 -0400 From: 2thman1@gmail.com Subject: [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS Who are these people? Anybody know? Just curious. What do Len Fox and Dave Morss think of these things? Seems like test pilot reports would be useful. John Barrett Sent from my iPad On Jun 4, 2013, at 5:14 AM, Bruce Whitaker wrote: Thanks, Just ordered a set for my 235. Great info. Bruce _____ From: PETER WILLIAMS To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 6:42 AM Subject: [LML] VORTEX GENERATORS HI THERE here is the link for vortex generator kits for Lancair aircraft http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm i was very happy with the company and with the results peter williams ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01CE61BA.62737C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Peter,

 

Here is an internet link – result of search for “Lancair = stall strips”. 

 

http://mysearch.avg.com/search?cid=3D{DF67323F-EA5D-4845-9C48-B1AE78F5= 0130}&mid=3D87fd74441dc0e1a71d1e6db14a570ecb-2b7c2e163abc66063bcba19b= 555719dba35a89ba&lang=3Den&ds=3DAVG&pr=3Dfr&d=3D2013-01-2= 6 = 08:12:28&v=3D14.2.0.1&pid=3Dsafeguard&sg=3D1&sap=3Ddsp&am= p;q=3Dlancair+stall+strips

 

There seem to be quite a few references.  The first hit is = Mark’s notes from one of our Lancair Builder’s meetings that = demonstrates much of his thinking at the time.   We had a = group of about 12 different IV projects for a decade or so here in WA = state.  There is a more definitive paper he wrote I recall that = discusses his research and experiments with the strips, leading him to = conclusions of their efficacy.  I believe test pilots were involved = and the strips were tried in numerous places until the best results were = achieved.

 

Sorry I can ‘t be more specific.

 

John Barrett

N31VP --- no stall strips ---- yet.

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = PETER WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 5:55 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = VORTEX GENERATORS ask the vender

 

hi = there

i would love to learn more about the stall strips. are = there photos? is there any design data? drawings?

i asked Len Fox = about stall strips and i did not get a clear answer such as you are = giving. Well he is a test pilot and does write a concise report of = conditions.

thanks for any leads or information that you might = have

peter

<= div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'>

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:05:46 -0400
From: 2thman1@gmail.com
Subject: = [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS ask the vender

Peter,

=

 

=

One additional thought. =  Mark Kirchner of Mercer Island, a Boeing engineer, designed stall = strips years ago.  He gave me my first lesson in composite work = while he was building his Lancair.  These strips have been = thoroughly tested by Len Fox and others.  They don't lower any of = the critical speeds, but they do provide aileron control and more docile = departures during a stall in this unforgiving beast.  Mark passed = away a few years ago but his idea was a good one and lots of IV's have = safer performance because of it.

 

=

John

 

=



Sent from my = iPad

 

=


On Jun 4, 2013, at = 11:08 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> = wrote:

Peter,

=

 

=

The web site does say all = you are reporting except the fact that Len Fox has done some testing, I = assume for you?  Was that on a = IVP?

 

=

They also don't identify = themselves by name or credentials and I had not heard of = them.

 

=

Thanks,

John

Sent from my = iPad

 

=


On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:08 = AM, PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com= > wrote:

JOHN

le= n in his analytical way reported the reduction of stall speed (he did a = before and after)

i was hoping that when we put the VG at 8% of = chord we could improve aerolon authority at or near the stall. no such = luck.

len had no negative thoughts, as far as i know, about the = VGs

from my conversations with the supplier, they had done VG for = certified airplanes prior to developing VGs for Lancairs.

call = them, they are very forthcoming

peter

<= div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'>

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:55:19 -0400
From: 2thman1@gmail.com
Subject: = [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS

Who = are these people? Anybody know?  Just curious.  What do Len = Fox and Dave Morss think of these = things?

 

=

Seems like test pilot = reports would be useful.

 

=

John = Barrett 

Sent from my iPad

 

=


On Jun 4, 2013, at 5:14 = AM, Bruce Whitaker <brucewhitaker67877@yahoo.com= > wrote:

 

Thanks,

Just = ordered a set for my 235.

Great = info.

Bruce

F= rom: = PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com= >
To: lml@lancaironline.net =
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 6:42 AM
Subject: [LML] = VORTEX GENERATORS

 

HI = THERE

here is the link for vortex generator kits for Lancair = aircraft

http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm

i was = very happy with the company and with the results

peter = williams

 

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