X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:58:44 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm31.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([72.30.239.198] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6298265 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 30 May 2013 11:55:37 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=72.30.239.198; envelope-from=rosel_george@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.215.143] by nm31.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2013 15:55:00 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.218] by tm14.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2013 15:55:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1027.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2013 15:55:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 527998.48736.bm@omp1027.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 24059 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2013 15:55:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=l4+8n27iysAIHN0kBKh9xJO9Rrhc8bSMb3eOW5WfzTHAG4AulMkhDkcCkAE3OFQMIRAF7f0szGZmG0jx7xGTKapY3mJffp9pyXv16yk/utryPpyZClJXvR8CMA0TYA+RjgOnjYKe2WwAeZ7NuK3HTvQ3bDlaTc1GZIBmlaHXptY=; X-YMail-OSG: FFWIIcwVM1nP42CEopKXYNrARcG1qav.wnXMd_9NXGIFlQU z3f.FDSugCrriLErMRZ4c Received: from [67.190.123.168] by web142604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 May 2013 08:55:00 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,V2hhdCBpcyBhICJWRyIgPz8KCgoKCgrCoApHZW9yZ2UgRi4gUm9zZWwKCgooY2VsbCkgMzAzLTk5NS01NTAxCgoKYWxzby4uLgoKIlRoZSBMb2RnZSBhdCBUaW1iZXJsaW5lIiwgQ29wcGVyIE10bi4sIENvbG9yYWRvIC4uLiBhIHRydWUgInNraS1pbi9za2ktb3V0IiBMdXh1cnkgSG9tZSBmb3IgUkVOVArCoC4uLiBDbGljayBoZXJlIHRvIHZpZXcgbXkgd2VicGFnZTpodHRwOi8vd3d3LnZyYm8uY29tLzI1NDczOQoKCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KIEZyb206IFBFVEVSIFdJTEwBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.145.547 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1369929300.23585.YahooMailNeo@web142604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 08:55:00 -0700 (PDT) From: George Rosel Reply-To: George Rosel Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="473635693-1635546-1369929300=:23585" --473635693-1635546-1369929300=:23585 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is a "VG" ??=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=A0=0AGeorge F. Rosel=0A=0A=0A(cell) 303= -995-5501=0A=0A=0Aalso...=0A=0A"The Lodge at Timberline", Copper Mtn., Colo= rado ... a true "ski-in/ski-out" Luxury Home for RENT=0A=A0... Click here t= o view my webpage:http://www.vrbo.com/254739=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________= ________________=0A From: PETER WILLIAMS =0AT= o: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:20 AM=0ASubject:= [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics=0A =0A=0A=0A =0Ahi there=0ABoeing built sever= al LNC4, but they enlarged the horizontal surface and redesigned the airfoi= l=0A=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0maybe they have some expertise in aircraft des= ign=0AInstalled=0A an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on t= he 4P and had a=0A 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed; highly recommend it t= o everyone. =0Arediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a template and shipping. = =0A=0Apeter=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0ATo: lml@lancairon= line.net=0ADate: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400=0AFrom: cwfmd@yahoo.com=0A= Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics=0A=0A=0ADoes anyone expect my mention= of=0A=A0'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid stall-departures (and subs= equent) spins. ??=0AGood Point Terrence, I accidentally left that out, focu= sing on the SD instead...=0A=A0I don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has = AOA installed. But I'm an old Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA= awareness(orientation?) and control authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced = control authority, to paraphrase Bert, in the tail, "there is not enough" s= urface.=0A=A0 We have an integrated systems project in our university cours= e, speculating on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wir= e control interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting ce= rtain control inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack might= limit back stick range or even add power and=0A optimal climb if low altit= ude?=0A=A0What if instant antispin control override kicks in, like the stic= k pusher in the F-104 or the Eclipse? What might the tradeoff be in aerodyn= amic improvements vs fly by wire? The problem is flight testing, because th= e fleet is not large enough to support this development and testing.=0A=A0 = We used to attack the identified problem, such as the F-14 flat spin(see To= pGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" , as follows:=0A1. Iden= tify the problem, =0A2. educate the pilots, =0A3. modify the training (I ba= gged lots of T-2 flt time, as a SPin/OutaControl flt instructor), =0A4. mod= ify the software or display/control etc,=A0=A0 but only lastly ,=0A5.modify= the hardware changing the airframe.=0A=A0These are, in sequence of expense= s, which increase(exponentially), with each level.=A0 With the Lancair, we = are always in the first 2 or 3 levels, because of funding, it is hard to re= ach=0A farther.=A0 The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair ent= husiasts, who have not yet been introduced to 1, 2 , & 3=A0 ! --473635693-1635546-1369929300=:23585 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What is a "VG" ??
=


 
George F. Rosel

(cell) 303-995-5501

also...=
"The Lodge at Timberline", Copper Mtn., Colorado ... a true "ski-in/= ski-out" Luxury Home for RENT
&= nbsp;... Click here to view my webpage: <= /span>http://www.vrbo.com/254739


From: PETER WILLIAM= S <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics<= br>

=0A=0A=0A
hi= there
Boeing built se= veral LNC4, but they enlarged the horizontal surface and redesigned the airfoil
   &nbs= p;       maybe they have some expertise in aircraft design
Installed=0A an AO= A in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a=0A 7-8 k= not reduction in stall speed; highly recommend it to everyone. =0Arediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a template and shipping.=

peter

To: lml@lan= caironline.net
Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400
From: cwfmd@yaho= o.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics

Does anyone expect my mention of
 'How about watchin= g your AOAs! to avoid stall-departures (and subsequent) spins. ??

Good Point Terrence, I accidentally left that out, focusing on t= he SD instead...
 I don't like to fly a Lancair unless= it has AOA installed. But I'm an old Navy test Pilot. Good comments both a= bout AOA awareness(orientation?) and control authority. I suspect the IV-P = reduced control authority, to paraphrase Bert, in the tail, "there is not e= nough" surface.
  We have an integrated systems project in our university course, speculating on how we could "fix= " the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire control interface. Could the mish= ap scenarios be over come by limiting certain control inputs? For example c= ommanding too much angle of attack might limit back stick range or even add= power and=0A optimal climb if low altitude?
 What if instant antis= pin control override kicks in, like the stick pusher in the F-104 or the Ec= lipse? What might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic improvements vs fly by wir= e? The problem is flight testing, because the fleet is not large enough to = support this development and testing.
  We used to attack the ident= ified problem, such as the F-14 flat spin(see TopGun movie) or the SD issue= in the F-16 "lawn dart" , as follows:
1. Identify the problem,
2. e= ducate the pilots,
3. modify the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt tim= e, as a SPin/OutaControl flt instructor),
4. modify the software or dis= play/control etc,   but only lastly ,
5.modify the hardware ch= anging the airframe.
 These are, in sequence of expenses, which inc= rease(exponentially), with each level.  With the Lancair, we are alway= s in the first 2 or 3 levels, because of funding, it is hard to reach=0A fa= rther.  The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enthusias= ts, who have not yet been introduced to 1, 2 , & 3  !
=09=09 =09 =09=09
=0A


<= /div>
--473635693-1635546-1369929300=:23585--