X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:29:12 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.6) with ESMTP id 5650959 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:14:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.4]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q6DKDcKS001949 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:13:38 -0400 Received: from [10.162.169.113] (mobile-166-147-066-164.mycingular.net [166.147.66.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 89ADEE000088; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:13:37 -0400 (EDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8L1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4-978480757 X-Original-Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8L1) From: Jeff Edwards Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TAS for Red Line X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:13:32 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:460793024:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d2904500081712d65 X-AOL-IP: 166.147.66.164 --Apple-Mail-4-978480757 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Vne is an indicated airspeed. AvSafe=20 Jeff Edwards 314.308.6719 mobile 636.532.5638 office Jeff.edwards@avsafe.com On Jul 13, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bob Rickard wrote: > My IV-P shows a red line on the Chelton system at 276 KIAS. The POH says t= he same. I have been close to there more than a few times, which means if i= t is meant to be TAS I have been WAY over that. I highly doubt Jeff Edwards= messed that up when getting the flight certificate on my airplane. Can't b= e right, I can almost cruise at 270 KTAS at FL250. Definitely not a univers= al rule. >=20 > Bob R >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Charles Brown wrote: >=20 >> Well that's interesting. FAR Part 23 (airworthiness standards for normal= , utility, acrobatic and commuter airplanes) Section 1545 (airspeed indicato= r) says that the airspeed indicator must be marked with a red line at Vne (t= hat would be an indicated airspeed) and that if Vne varies with altitude, th= ere must be a way of indicating Vne to the pilot throughout the envelope. Fo= r airplanes operating at Mach numbers where compressibility matters (not Lan= cairs), Vmo is defined in Equivalent airspeed, which is still very close to I= AS, and there has to be a way of showing the variation of Vmo/Mmo with altit= ude and Mach number. >>=20 >> I've never met a light aircraft instrument system that had a primary airs= peed indicator with anything *other* than IAS, and just one redline value. T= he Garmin 900, and I guess other EFISs, also read TAS but not on a big prett= y scale with a redline. You can set the redline on the airspeed tape conser= vatively so that it's below the lowest TAS for flutter at any altitude; then= you give away a few knots at lower altitudes. >>=20 >> How many folks spend any time at redline? I've never gotten anywhere nea= r it in my Legacy. >>=20 >> Charley Brown >> Legacy #299 130 hr >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:26 PM, Steve Colwell wrote: >>=20 >> Having coffee with some high time pilots this morning, the subject of Nev= er Exceed Speed came up. Before I read the original Van=E2=80=99s article y= ears ago, I thought Indicated Airspeed was the indicator=E2=80=A6 WRONG, it= is True Airspeed. Does your EFIS display TAS or do you have a table for re= ference??=20 >> =20 >> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf=20 >> =20 >> Steve Colwell Legacy >>=20 --Apple-Mail-4-978480757 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Vne is an indicated airspeed.

AvSafe 
Jeff Edwards
314.308.6719 mobile
636.532.= 5638 office

On Jul 13, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bob Rickar= d <r.rickard@rcginc-us.com= > wrote:

My I= V-P shows a red line on the Chelton system at 276 KIAS.  The POH says t= he same.  I have been close to there more than a few times, which means= if it is meant to be TAS I have been WAY over that.  I highly doubt Je= ff Edwards messed that up when getting the flight certificate on my airplane= .  Can't be right, I can almost cruise at 270 KTAS at FL250.  Defi= nitely not a universal rule.

Bob R



On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Charles Brown <browncc1@verizo= n.net> wrote:

<= div>
Well that's interesting.  FAR Part 23 (airworthiness standards= for normal, utility, acrobatic and commuter airplanes) Section 1545 (airspe= ed indicator) says that the airspeed indicator must be marked with a red lin= e at Vne (that would be an indicated airspeed) and that if Vne varies with a= ltitude, there must be a way of indicating Vne to the pilot throughout the e= nvelope.  For airplanes operating at Mach numbers where compressibility= matters (not Lancairs), Vmo is defined in Equivalent airspeed, which is sti= ll very close to IAS, and there has to be a way of showing the variation of V= mo/Mmo with altitude and Mach number.

I've never me= t a light aircraft instrument system that had a primary airspeed indicator w= ith anything *other* than IAS, and just one redline value.  The Garmin 9= 00, and I guess other EFISs, also read TAS but not on a big pretty scale wit= h a redline.  You can set the redline on the airspeed tape conservative= ly so that it's below the lowest TAS for flutter at any altitude; then you g= ive away a few knots at lower altitudes.

How many f= olks spend any time at redline?  I've never gotten anywhere near it in m= y Legacy.

Charley Brown
Legacy #299  = ;130 hr


On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:26 PM, Steve= Colwell wrote:

Having coffee with= some high time pilots this morning, the subject of Never Exceed Speed came u= p.  Before I read the original Van=E2=80=99s article years ago, I thoug= ht Indicated Airspeed was the indicator=E2=80=A6  WRONG, it is True Air= speed.  Does your EFIS display TAS or do you have a table for reference= ?? 
&nb= sp;
 
Steve Colwell  Legacy

= --Apple-Mail-4-978480757--