X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 08:57:18 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.213.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5577633 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 08:36:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.52; envelope-from=pjdmiller@gmail.com Received: by yhpp61 with SMTP id p61so2594438yhp.25 for ; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 05:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.10.164 with SMTP id j4mr7885752igb.13.1338813370027; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 05:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.77] (s72-38-105-170.static.comm.cgocable.net. [72.38.105.170]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gw4sm11429571igb.6.2012.06.04.05.36.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 04 Jun 2012 05:36:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Miller Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--271087103 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter X-Original-Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:36:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <97045A4F-A815-425B-AB75-40EF8FE6E9CD@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-1--271087103 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 The shaft failure in the CMI adapters is not the same failure caused by = geared starters. The geared starters cause the spring and gripping = surface to wear prematurely and slip while starting. There are a lot of = early ISKRA-turned adapters that failed at less than 100 hours so be = aware of that potential. I think you would be happy with the more = powerful ST5 with the clutch (no active gears after starts) or the = original TCM/Prestolite anchors). I have the TCM but have never tried = the ST3 or ST5 personally. So, the AD is not connected to the ISKRA problem IMO. Paul Legacy North Bay, ON On 2012-06-04, at 7:54 AM, John Smith wrote: > Hi Ron, >=20 > No, it wasn't mine that was slipping but I'm on the case now to sort = things out before something fails. >=20 > I have a regular CMI starter adapter =96 incidentally, one that does = not have a part number the subject of the AD 2012-10-13 issued recently = (this one extended the applicability of the earlier AD on this subject = to ALL engines manufactured prior to Nov 2011 (not just in the period = Jan 2011 to Nov 2011); but I do have an ISKRA starter. >=20 > I had been thinking of replacing the ISKRA unit with the SkyTec C24ST3 = (the lower duty of the two suited to the IO550 =96 being ..ST3 or ST5). >=20 > I noted your comments about the SkyTec unit "finishing the job"=85. = I'm just wondering if that outcome might be related to the duff CMI = starter adapters the subject of this AD? In other words, whilst the = ISKRA starter does damage, certain starter adapters were doomed anyway? >=20 > My engine has about 50hours on it, and prob somewhere around 50 = starts. >=20 > Whilst I like the light weight of the SkyTec ST3 unit (just over 6 lbs = and lower torque than the ST5, and my battery is in the back so SkyTec = under this circumstance recommend the ST3 anyway), appreciate any views = around whether the SkyTec is a good option or not, and whether I should = be overhauling the starter adapter? >=20 > Thanks! >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > John >=20 >=20 > John N G Smith > Tel / fax: +61-8-9385-8891 > Mobile: +61-409-372-975 > Email: john@jjts.net.au >=20 >=20 > From: Ron Laughlin > Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List > Date: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 1:17 AM > To: > Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter >=20 > Hi john, > I believe it is your starter adaptor that is slipping. Mine produced = the same symptoms when it failed.=20 >=20 > I think the Iskra starter damaged your starter adaptor and then the = extra torque provided by the Skytec starter finished the job. This has = happened to enough Cirrus owners that many shops now recommend a = preemptive IRAN on the starter adaptor when changing from an Iskra to = one of the newer starters. >=20 > Ron >=20 > On May 26, 2012, at 2:34 PM, jpkleber@charter.net wrote: >=20 >> Greetings, >>=20 >> I have been flying my Legacy for one year now and have accumulated 80 = hours flight time. My Legacy is equipped with a Continental IO-550-N = engine. >>=20 >> At hour 70, I removed the ISKRA starter as a preemptive measure to = preserve the starter adapter. I replaced it with a SkyTec starter. All = has been well for the next 10 hours. However, now at 80 hours, it = appears I am getting starter slippage. While starting the engine, I'll = get a couple blades of rotation --- and then the prop will stop turning = (at a compression stroke), but it sounds as if the starter motor is = continuing to turn with full power. Stop cranking. Then resume, I'll = get a few more blades of rotation, and then the prop will stop turning, = while the starter motor continues with full power.=20 >>=20 >> Is this what a failed starter adapter sounds like? Request advice on = how to proceed from other Legacy, ES, and IV, (equipped with Continental = IO-550-N) owner/builders who have had similar experience and = successfully resolved the issue. >>=20 >> Thank you, >> John --Apple-Mail-1--271087103 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 The = shaft failure in the CMI adapters is not the same failure caused by = geared starters.    The geared starters cause the spring and = gripping surface to wear prematurely and slip while starting. =  There are a lot of early ISKRA-turned adapters that failed at less = than 100 hours so be aware of that potential.  I think you would be = happy with the more powerful ST5 with the clutch (no active gears after = starts) or the original TCM/Prestolite anchors).  I have the TCM = but have never tried the ST3 or ST5 personally.

So, = the AD is not connected to the ISKRA problem = IMO.

Paul
Legacy
North Bay, = ON
On 2012-06-04, at 7:54 AM, John Smith wrote:

Hi = Ron,

No, it wasn't mine that was slipping but = I'm on the case now to sort things out before something = fails.

I have a regular CMI starter adapter =96 = incidentally, one that does not have a part number the subject of the AD = 2012-10-13 issued recently (this one extended the applicability of the = earlier AD on this subject to ALL engines manufactured prior to Nov 2011 = (not just in the period Jan 2011 to Nov 2011); but I do have an ISKRA = starter.

I had been thinking of replacing the = ISKRA unit with the SkyTec C24ST3 (the lower duty of the two suited to = the IO550 =96 being ..ST3 or ST5).

I noted your = comments about the SkyTec unit "finishing the job"=85. I'm just = wondering if that outcome might be related to the duff CMI starter = adapters the subject of this AD?  In other words, whilst the ISKRA = starter does damage, certain starter adapters were doomed = anyway?

My engine has about 50hours on it, and = prob somewhere around 50 starts.

Whilst I like = the light weight of the SkyTec ST3 unit (just over 6 lbs and lower = torque than the ST5, and my battery is in the back so SkyTec under this = circumstance recommend the ST3 anyway), appreciate any views around = whether the SkyTec is a good option or not, and whether I should be = overhauling the starter = adapter?

Thanks!



Regards,

John
John N G Smith
Tel / fax:    +61-8-9385-8891
Mobile:      +61-409-372-975
Email:         john@jjts.net.au

=

From: Ron Laughlin <ronlaughlin@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List = <lml@lancaironline.net>
Date: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 1:17 = AM
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy = Starter/Starter Adapter

Hi john,
I believe it is your starter = adaptor that is slipping. Mine produced the same symptoms when it = failed. 

I think the Iskra starter damaged = your starter adaptor and then the extra torque provided by the Skytec = starter finished the job. This has happened to enough Cirrus owners that = many shops now recommend a preemptive IRAN on the starter adaptor when = changing from an Iskra to one of the newer = starters.

Ron

On May 26, 2012, at 2:34 PM, jpkleber@charter.net = wrote:

Greetings,

I have = been flying my Legacy for one year now and have accumulated 80 hours = flight time.  My Legacy is equipped with a Continental IO-550-N = engine.

At hour 70, I removed the ISKRA starter as a preemptive = measure to preserve the starter adapter.  I replaced it with a = SkyTec starter.  All has been well for the next 10 hours.  = However, now at 80 hours, it appears I am getting starter = slippage.  While starting the engine, I'll get a couple blades of = rotation  --- and then the prop will stop turning (at a compression = stroke), but it sounds as if the starter motor is continuing to turn = with full power.  Stop cranking.  Then resume, I'll get a few = more blades of rotation, and then the prop will stop turning, while the = starter motor continues with full power. 

Is this = what a failed starter adapter sounds like?  Request advice on how = to proceed from other Legacy, ES, and IV, (equipped with Continental = IO-550-N) owner/builders who have had similar experience and = successfully resolved the issue.

Thank = you,
John

= --Apple-Mail-1--271087103--