X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:01:44 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTP id 5566965 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 May 2012 20:24:01 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.143; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.141]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q4U0NPCd005781 for ; Tue, 29 May 2012 20:23:25 -0400 Received: from core-mtb002a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.197]) by mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 79861E000083 for ; Tue, 29 May 2012 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <1c176.6ef03700.3cf6c27d@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] AOA systems X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1c176.6ef03700.3cf6c27d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:453260992:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338d4fc5687d0559 --part1_1c176.6ef03700.3cf6c27d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jack, Here is another. We don't fly fighters to carrier decks - thus, there is a wee bit of flexibility. While my AOA (with chevrons) is located at the upper left of my panel (and thus, not far from where I am looking), the nagging audio of "angle, angle, push" is adequate. I do not need to know the exact amount of push as long as she shuts up. The intuitive response to any whining high-pitched voice is to push the stick from head to toe. Uh, that may be wrong if I am upside down. Well, my advice is to get an AOA (with the nag) and report back...... After all, one can set up for descent to landing or best glide by mere occasional reference to the silent range of the device and that is a lot better than guessing when you ain't got one.. Grayhawk In a message dated 5/29/2012 12:10:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jraddison@msn.com writes: Terrence asked of AOA systems, so standby for conflicting opinions. Here's one. From my experience flying F4s (USAF) and several Navy ac (Naval TPS) the only AOA presentation that is visually in concert with contact flying (eg base to final turn) especially in a deceleration pattern: the presentation indicator MUST be in the field of view as the pilot is looking out of the cockpit, past the instrument panel. An indicator on the instrument panel is only more good data like airspeed, but requires refocus, and does not deliver the information where it's needed: in the field of view. Therefore, the challenge is to get an appropriate indicator mounted above the glare shield and as far forward as possible. Additionally, the visual must provide intuitive reaction by the pilot and not require interpretation. The Alpha Systems chevron indicator provides this. The donut is "onspeed" and the chevrons suggest to the pilot what to do with the stick. That is why thousands of military fighter pilots in millions of hours of flying, have come to see this presentation as the appropriate standard for instant visual recognition of the AOA right now, when micro seconds count. (However, the Alpha Systems probe is troublesome for a couple of reasons.) One que the fighters of the 60's did not have, is an aural in the headset that said "Angle, Push, Push," and that too would be an excellent and valued que for quick response by the pilot. Unfortunately the aural que doesn't indicate how much to push forward, and when is it ok to ease back again. Whether that evokes the desired flight response as quick as a visual in the field of view would require testing. In lieu of that, I believe an aural signal with practiced pilot input would be a good contender for use with head-out-of-the-cockpit contact flying, where it's most important. The May 2012 issue of Aviation Consumer does a good job of describing AOA systems available. It only lacked in not emphasizing enough that an intuitive visual indication IN THE FIELD OF VIEW is the most useful in preventing death and destruction. Think donut and chevrons. Jack Addison LNC 2 hi comp, no AOA = --part1_1c176.6ef03700.3cf6c27d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jack,
 
Here is another.  We don't fly fighters to carrier decks - thus, = there=20 is a wee bit of flexibility.  While my AOA (with chevrons) is located = at=20 the upper left of my panel (and thus, not far from where I am looking),&nbs= p;=20 the nagging audio of "angle, angle, push" is adequate.  I do not need = to=20 know the exact amount of push as long as she shuts up.  The intuitive= =20 response to any whining high-pitched voice is to push the stick from head t= o=20 toe. Uh, that may be wrong if I am upside down.
 
Well, my advice is to get an AOA (with the nag) and report=20 back......
 
After all, one can set up for descent to landing or best glide by mere= =20 occasional reference to the silent range of the device and that is a l= ot=20 better than guessing when you ain't got one..
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 5/29/2012 12:10:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 jraddison@msn.com writes:
=
Terrence asked of AOA systems, so standby for conflicting= =20 opinions.=20

Here's one.    From my experience flying F4s (USAF) and se= veral=20 Navy ac (Naval TPS) the only AOA presentation that is visually in concert= with=20 contact flying (eg base to final turn) especially in a deceleration patte= rn:=20  the presentation indicator MUST be in the field of view as the pilo= t is=20 looking out of the cockpit, past the instrument panel.  An indicator= on=20 the instrument panel is only more good data like airspeed, but requires= =20 refocus, and does not deliver the information where it's needed: in the f= ield=20 of view.

Therefore, the challenge is to get an appropriate indicator mounted = above=20 the glare shield and as far forward as possible.

Additionally, the visual must provide intuitive reaction by the pilo= t and=20 not require interpretation.  The Alpha Systems chevron indicator pro= vides=20 this.  The donut is "onspeed" and the chevrons suggest to the pilot = what=20 to do with the stick.   That is why thousands of military fighter pi= lots=20 in millions of hours of flying, have come to see this presentation as the= =20 appropriate standard for instant visual recognition of the AOA right now,= when=20 micro seconds count.  (However, the Alpha Systems probe is troubleso= me=20 for a couple of reasons.)

One que the fighters of the 60's did not have, is an aural in the he= adset=20 that said "Angle, Push, Push," and that too would be an excellent and val= ued=20 que for quick response by the pilot.   Unfortunately the aural que= =20 doesn't indicate how much to push forward, and when is it ok to ease back= =20 again.  Whether that evokes the desired flight response as quick as = a=20 visual in the field of view would require testing.   In lieu of that= , I=20 believe an aural signal with practiced pilot input would be a good conten= der=20 for use with head-out-of-the-cockpit contact flying, where it's most=20 important.

The May 2012 issue of Aviation Consumer does a good job of describin= g AOA=20 systems available.  It only lacked in not emphasizing enough that an= =20 intuitive visual indication IN THE FIELD OF VIEW is the most useful in=20 preventing death and destruction.  Think donut and chevrons.

Jack Addison  
LNC 2 hi comp, no AOA





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