X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:34:42 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5487346 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:06:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.204]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q3IH5msE022220 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:05:48 -0400 Received: from core-mne002c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mne002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.107.69]) by mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id F37FDE000086 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:05:47 -0400 (EDT) References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CEEB9CA292DC56_1B08_10E15A_webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35919-STANDARD Received: from 75.49.239.82 by webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com (64.12.222.100) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:05:48 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CEEB9CA27B0E46-1B08-41207@webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [75.49.239.82] X-Original-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:05:47 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:465372768:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33cc4f8ef46b797b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CEEB9CA292DC56_1B08_10E15A_webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Ralf, My procedure follows George B's recommendation-- WOT climb. Fuel flow is ab= out mid 40 gph. MAP 38.5. RPM 2700 to level off. That keeps the cylinders c= ool in climb along with George's recommended baffling mods. Be careful beca= use too high fuel flow will "flood" engine=20 Jeff -----Original Message----- From: bronnenmeier To: lml Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 10:01 am Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder Jeff, does this mean that I need a bigger #4 fuel injector? =20 From: vtailjeff@aol.com [mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:55 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 not enough fuel flow to keep it cool. -----Original Message----- From: bronnenmeier To: lml Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:53 am Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder Dear subscribers, =20 Since we are talking about hot cylinders I got one question that bothers me= : I have a plenum and I tried to do a very anal job in sealing all the leaks = around the engine =E2=80=93 I followed Fred Moreno=E2=80=99s instructions t= here. I have different temperature patterns amongst the cylinders for different s= ituations. LOP cruise: #2 is the warmest and is usually between 330 and 370 depending = on altitude, humidity, fuel flow etc. =E2=80=93 always very cool no issue a= t all Climb 32=E2=80=9D MAP, 2500 1/min, full rich : cylinder 4 wants to get warm= and I keep the airspeed around 180 in order to stay below 400F. This is th= e situation I am not really happy about =E2=80=93 if I don=E2=80=99t pay at= tention on a warm day the #4 will get above 400F Climb 2500 1/min, full rich, full throttle: even temperature profile amongs= t the cylinders. Engine runs generally cooler and airplane climbs faster. =20 I tried to watch the EGTs and see if #4 is running lean but I could not tel= l a difference in the EGT. #4 has the dip stick pipe and more hoses that co= uld influence airflow. =20 Any idea why #4 is warmer at 32=E2=80=9D? =20 Thanks for your help =20 Ralf =20 From: schroder [mailto:schroder@timesync.com]=20 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 8:56 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 Pete, can you post pictures of this scoop and oil cooler box? Thanks dave =20 From: pete@leapfrogventures.com=20 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:14 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 #2 was also my hottest cylinder. First I installed the cupped insert that = was listed in one of the on-line articles that allows the air to flow aroun= d the shallow fins on the oil cooler side of #2. I learned that TCM cylind= ers have asymmetric depths on the fins on the left vs right sides. The lef= t sides have very deep channels between the fins, while on the right side t= he cylinder barrel comes right up to the top of the cooling fins. This mea= ns that the oil cooler box effectively blocks the cooling air from going ar= ound to the lower right side of the cylinder. =20 =20 However, even with the cupped insert, #2 was still my hottest. At that poi= nt I remembered that my engine, which I got from a salvage of Adam aircraft= inventory, came with a piece of baffling for the oil box that had a scoop = installed inside the oil box that directed air around to the lower right si= de of the cylinder. The scoop was =C2=BE=E2=80=9D deep at the top and flus= h at the bottom, and about 3=E2=80=9D wide. I moved this scoop from the di= scarded Adam baffling piece onto the Lancair oil box (the hole was nearly t= he same size as the previous dished shaped part I had installed before). N= ot only did this solve my #2 CHT problem (it is now one of my coolest cylin= ders), but it did not noticeably affect oil temps. A win-win. =20 Pete =20 From: John Barrett [mailto:jbarrett@carbinge.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:02 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 Looking for advice for this problem. Oil cooler door may help a little but= the trade off of oil temp increase vs CHT increase is a trap at high power= climb and in slow flight. Two hours of flight time and problem is consist= ent up to about 8,000 or 9,000 ft. One idea suggested is to fair the insid= e top of the intake cowl on the left side because turbulence here will decr= ease the airflow to the top left side of the engine. One person indicated = he did this with a IVP and achieved a 20 degree drop in EGT by doing this. = =20 =20 Anyone else have experience with that? =20 Thanks in advance and to those who have sent congratulatory emails. =20 Regards, =20 John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 =20 www.carbinge.com =20 ----------MB_8CEEB9CA292DC56_1B08_10E15A_webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Ralf,
 
My procedure follows George B's recommendation-- WOT climb. Fuel flow = is about mid 40 gph. MAP 38.5. RPM 2700 to level off. That keeps the cylind= ers cool in climb along with George's recommended baffling mods. Be careful= because too high fuel flow will "flood" engine
 
Jeff


= -----Original Message-----
From: bronnenmeier <bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 10:01 am
Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder

Jeff,= does this mean that I need a bigger #4 fuel injector?
 = ;
Fr= om: vtailjeff@aol.com [mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:55 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder
 
not enough  fuel flow to keep it cool.

-----Original Message-----
From: bronnenmeier <bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM> To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:53 am
Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder
Dear = subscribers,
 = ;
Since= we are talking about hot cylinders I got one question that bothers me:
I hav= e a plenum and I tried to do a very anal job in sealing all the leaks aroun= d the engine =E2=80=93 I followed Fred Moreno=E2=80=99s instructions there.=
I hav= e different temperature patterns amongst the cylinders for different situat= ions.
LOP c= ruise: #2 is the warmest and is usually between 330 and 370 depending on al= titude, humidity, fuel flow etc. =E2=80=93 always very cool no issue at all=
Climb= 32=E2=80=9D MAP, 2500 1/min, full rich : cylinder 4 wants to get warm and = I keep the airspeed around 180 in order to stay below 400F. This is the sit= uation I am not really happy about =E2=80=93 if I don=E2=80=99t pay attenti= on on a warm day the #4 will get above 400F
Climb= 2500 1/min, full rich, full throttle: even temperature profile amongst the= cylinders. Engine runs generally cooler and airplane climbs faster.=
 = ;
I tri= ed to watch the EGTs and see if #4 is running lean but I could not tell a d= ifference in the EGT. #4 has the dip stick pipe and more hoses that could i= nfluence airflow.
 = ;
Any i= dea why #4 is warmer at 32=E2=80=9D?
 = ;
Thank= s for your help
 = ;
Ralf<= /SPAN>
 = ;
Fr= om: schroder [mailt= o:schroder@timesync.com]
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 8:56 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder
 = ;
Pete, can you post pic= tures of this scoop and oil cooler box?  Thanks
dave
 = ;
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:14 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder
 
#2 wa= s also my hottest cylinder.  First I installed the cupped insert that = was listed in one of the on-line articles that allows the air to flow aroun= d the shallow fins on the oil cooler side of #2.  I learned that TCM c= ylinders have asymmetric depths on the fins on the left vs right sides.&nbs= p; The left sides have very deep channels between the fins, while on the ri= ght side the cylinder barrel comes right up to the top of the cooling fins.=   This means that the oil cooler box effectively blocks the cooling ai= r from going around to the lower right side of the cylinder.  <= /div>
 = ;
Howev= er, even with the cupped insert, #2 was still my hottest.  At that poi= nt I remembered that my engine, which I got from a salvage of Adam aircraft= inventory, came with a piece of baffling for the oil box that had a scoop = installed inside the oil box that directed air around to the lower right si= de of the cylinder.  The scoop was =C2=BE=E2=80=9D deep at the top and= flush at the bottom, and about 3=E2=80=9D wide.  I moved this scoop f= rom the discarded Adam baffling piece onto the Lancair oil box (the hole wa= s nearly the same size as the previous dished shaped part I had installed b= efore).  Not only did this solve my #2 CHT problem (it is now one of m= y coolest cylinders), but it did not noticeably affect oil temps.  A w= in-win.
 = ;
Pete<= /SPAN>
 = ;
Fr= om: John Barrett = [mailto:jbarrett@carbinge.com]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:02 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder
 = ;
Looki= ng for advice for this problem.  Oil cooler door may help a little but= the trade off of oil temp increase vs CHT increase is a trap at high power= climb and in slow flight.  Two hours of flight time and problem is co= nsistent up to about 8,000 or 9,000 ft.  One idea suggested is to fair= the inside top of the intake cowl on the left side because turbulence here= will decrease the airflow to the top left side of the engine.  One pe= rson indicated he did this with a IVP and achieved a 20 degree drop in EGT = by doing this. 
 = ;
Anyon= e else have experience with that?
 = ;
Thank= s in advance and to those who have sent congratulatory emails.
 = ;
Regar= ds,
 = ;
John = Barrett, CEO
Leadi= ng Edge Composites
PO Bo= x 428
Port = Hadlock, WA 98339
 = ;
 = ;
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